Gay Rights - Page 14 - The Horse Forum
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post #131 of 161 Old 07-02-2012, 11:18 PM
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Okay, what rights, exactly, do people not have? I am assuming these are "people" we are talking about, correct? Or, is "gay" a species?

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post #132 of 161 Old 07-03-2012, 04:33 AM
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i believe that civil marriage, asside for offering an equal stand in front of society as for straight couples, also offers certain rights.
I am not sure what's the deal with your medical system in US, ours in Romania is very different, but there is something about gay partners not being able to cover one for the other certain medical costs with the insurance. And I guess that is the case with the spouses from a straight couple marriage.

In my country, if they would get the right to get married, they could, for example:
- legally adopt children
- legally obtain a loan based on both incomes (impossible if you are not married, in here)
- legally leave something for their life partner as heir / heiress, if they pass away. You can even if you ar not married, but it's very hairy, usually relatives of 1st , 2nd degree jump in, get a lawyer, claim the deceased was crazy and the money / whatever it is in the will should be theirs, etc.

I can't think right now of other economic / social marriage benefits. I'm sure there's more after all, I am happily married LOL
But anyways, the idea is that if we allow gay people to get married, their life quality would improve. And even ours, indirectly. More families, more incomes, more loans, more stability, more kids adopted....less drama...

:)
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post #133 of 161 Old 07-03-2012, 05:41 AM
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So... what's the difference between civil union and marriage, legally?
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post #134 of 161 Old 07-03-2012, 07:12 AM
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Civil Unions do not have the same prestige as marriage and do not automatically award the rights that a marriage does.
Civil unions are not accepted anywhere but the cities, states, that recognize them. they are not valid anywhere else. Shalom
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post #135 of 161 Old 07-03-2012, 07:45 AM
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Okay, what rights, exactly, do people not have?
Benefits as a spouse (insurance, tax return, etc.).

I do support all-states-wide civil union, because in case of "divorce" or death the partner should have same rights as spouse IMO, and be protected. (inaclick, gay couples can adopt kids here in US as well as be together on loan, etc.)

However I have double feeling about the benefits (unless the company is willing to provide insurance as its policy). For example, if I live with my mom (we both work, both on loan, pay for utilities, in principle I can adopt a kid if I want etc.). So everything is the same as I'd live with the same-sex partner (besides the sex of course), then why can't I put her on my tax return or get medical insurance through my company as well? How different is it from living with the partner?

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post #136 of 161 Old 07-03-2012, 08:16 AM
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A marriage usually takes place in a church meaning with the church's (god's-their term not mine) blessing. A civil takes place in a courthouse or JP's residence. In Canada it remains up to the individual minister, pastor, priest to perform the ceremony. The more open-minded ones will, the other's who are still wrestling with it won't.
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post #137 of 161 Old 07-03-2012, 08:37 AM
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Kiss, we have a church in our little berg that vehemently opposes homosexuality. One particular older couplewill quote chapter and verse from the bible. They had a pile of kids. Finally someone questioned them as to whether they would have stopped loving one of their children had it been gay. Thankfully none of them were because he/she would have been hounded with scriptures on the wrongness of it. That is too heavy a burden for a child. Bible punchers (Cdn term) or religious zealots) take too much out of context. The bible is a book of books (like Reader's Digest books) telling a number of stories within one set of covers, It isn't about individual verses or sentences, it's about the message of that particular book. No where in the bible does it speak of treating others badly, in fact it's quite the opposite, to look within and to be kind and forgiving and to try to bring joy to others.
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post #138 of 161 Old 07-03-2012, 09:06 AM
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A marriage usually takes place in a church meaning with the church's (god's-their term not mine) blessing. A civil takes place in a courthouse or JP's residence.
Is it a Canadian definition? I was married in a courthouse, but it's a marriage (not "civil union" as dba described it). Of course with all rights and benefits (which I don't use anyway ) as if I'd have it in church.

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass: it's about learning to dance in the rain..."

"When we are no longer able to change a situation - we are challenged to change ourselves."

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post #139 of 161 Old 07-03-2012, 09:46 AM
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Is it a Canadian definition? I was married in a courthouse, but it's a marriage (not "civil union" as dba described it). Of course with all rights and benefits (which I don't use anyway ) as if I'd have it in church.
No, that is not a definition limited to Canada. There is nothing wrong with a courthouse marriage, but that is a civil ceremony here in the US, just as anywhere else. Depending upon one's personal definition, a courthouse marriage is actually a civil union - it is not a holy marriage performed in the presence of, and with the blessing of, God. That is why so many people initially get married at the courthouse and then subsequently have a church marriage. While a civil marriage still encompasses all the "rights" of any marriage, and formalizes the committment of two partners, it does not have the same meaning as a church marriage - assuming of course that one believes in a God to begin with. To the Godless, they of course are one and the same.

There seems to be an attitude here (not necessarily by you - just in general) that "marriage" is nothing more than a legal contract. I feel very sorry for people that view it as nothing more than that. The relationship I have with Mrs. Face is far more than a mere legal contract, and it saddens me that people today are so shallow and limited in their committments that they will never enjoy what a true marriage is. The lack of a full committment, body and soul, is perhaps why the divorce rate is so high and so many people never get married to begin with. It is like haveing a cake without any icing, but I suppose if you have never had icing to begin with, or don't even know what icing is, it really doesn't matter because you don't know what you are missing...
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post #140 of 161 Old 07-03-2012, 10:23 AM
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I didn't read everything, but I've thought for years that there should be civil unions across the board with the same rights in the eyes of the law across the board. However, I don't believe that churches should be forced to marry people that don't adhere to their beliefs and moral codes. IMO that's just as bad as what we have now.

Face, I particularly agree with your last paragraph. I have a similar viewpoint to yours regarding marriage even though I am not a particularly religious person. Very few of my age group have the same thoughts on marriage, generally it's a legal thing or only in "good times" and not the bad. It seems that many people have forgotten what true commitment is and that's very sad.
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