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post #61 of 161 Old 07-01-2012, 01:56 AM
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I wasn't going to jump in on this one, but I found a really good article I wanted to post. It's a long read but definitely worth it. As a Catholic, this perfectly covers what I believe in regarding homosexuals. Basically, the debate on if homosexuals should marry is just a small part of a bigger problem that is reducing the holiness of marriage. It's late now and I'm tired, but I'll come back again tomorrow to post some more.
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post #62 of 161 Old 07-01-2012, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by PaintLover17 View Post
I wasn't going to jump in on this one, but I found a really good article I wanted to post. It's a long read but definitely worth it. As a Catholic, this perfectly covers what I believe in regarding homosexuals. Basically, the debate on if homosexuals should marry is just a small part of a bigger problem that is reducing the holiness of marriage. It's late now and I'm tired, but I'll come back again tomorrow to post some more.
Gay Marriage | Catholic Answers
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Is marriage holy? Could have told me that, my parents got married in a registry office and I plan to follow suit. Don't see any point in making promises in the presence of a god I don't believe in. Feel free to practice any religion you choose but marriage isn't the domain of Catholics (or Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, atheists, Satanists or any other belief or non-belief), it's a legally binding contract.

And your statement also implies that non-heterosexual people are unholy. I don't believe in holy but my gay Catholic friends are no less devout than any other Catholics I know.

The law must be based on reason, logic and universal ethics, not some group's moral code.
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post #63 of 161 Old 07-01-2012, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Endiku View Post
I honestly just don't understand why people are trying to 'convert' us heteros to the homosexual outlook. You say that we're the ones who point fingers and wag tounges, but honestly I don't see any difference between us. If we dissagree even passively with gay rights, you're willing to jump at our throats and call us homophobes, just as much as SOME of us are willing to judge you for being homosexual. Neither of us are any better than eachother :/

I understand that this is a sensative subject. But so is starvation. Death. Where we go after we die. Family. Can't we all just give eachother respect on these sorts of issues and not have to feel like we have to butt heads or throw money at certain organizations? I mean honestly. Why do you think all of those different companies support gay rights? Because THEY WANT MORE MONEY. If they were openly against gay rights, they would loose not only their gay customers but also their straight customers who supported gay rights. I'm not saying thats wrong of them, but its not because everyone that works for them or is involved in business with them are actually for it.

I'm not for gay rights. And I know that you are all going to jump at me now, because although this is supposed to be a discussion, many of you are biased before you even start reading what I'm about to say now. Its a one sided debate.

So, yes. I said it. I'm not for gay rights. I'm also...get this...a christian. Which immediately makes me childish and immature, right? Now you hate me right? You'll forget all of the very mature, adult conversations I've had, all of the situations I've handled well, who I am, and why. Just because of my labels. Thats fine, hate me if you want. But know that I'm not going to condemn YOU for your affliation. That makes me the bigger person. I'm not going to hate you and I'm not going to condemn you. In fact, I love each and every one of you even if we don't agree. I can hate something that you do but not hate you, just like I can hate that my dad is an alchoholic but still love him because he's my dad. I dont think less of him, I don't go around telling everyone that I hate alcoholism or beer. I simply love him as a person without agreeing with him.

I don't openly proclaim that I hate homosexuals because I don't. I value them all as people and will not treat them differently. Yet I'm labeled as a homophobe all of the time. Isnt there something wrong with that? But I dont have organizations supporting me or marches in my honor to promote acceptance, do I?

Isn't there something wrong here? :/

The only thing I don't like about this post is that I can't "like" it more than once......
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post #64 of 161 Old 07-01-2012, 03:52 AM
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I think it's sick how people can turn their nose up at Gay people. How is letting them get married wrong? If two people love each other then they should have the RIGHT to marry. Marriage shouldn't be restricted to heterosexual couples. Same with surrogacy and adoption. I know know about America, but Australia is really barbaric about their gay rights. In Queensland, a gay couple can be called "A Registered Relationship", they can't have a wedding ceremony. I think it's really sad, the world needs to move forward, how are gay relationships different to heterosexual relationships? I didn't know that someones actions in the bedroom could cause such an issue ;)

Sorry for the rant...

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post #65 of 161 Old 07-01-2012, 08:30 AM
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The only way to keep marriage and church separate is to have two types of marriage. One is religious and the other is a civil union. As far as Australia telling people they can't have a ceremony; that's weird. In America, I think that we could have any kind of private ceremony that we could think of.

By the way, thinking about all this stuff gave me bad dreams. I think I'm too old......

Carpe Diem!
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post #66 of 161 Old 07-01-2012, 08:45 AM
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About marriage being holy.
Remember this Abraham married his fathers daughter.
Theri son married his Uncles daughter. Their son married his Uncles two daughters.
If a Man rapes a virgin He must marry her or pay the price of her dowry.
the only people that have a say in the matter are the rapist and her father.
If a woman's husband dies according to hebrew law she must marry his brother.
My point being that the woman had no say in the marriage.
Infact the only ceremaony was a man taking a woman into his tent with her fathers permission.
A man MUST divorce his wife if she is barren or Take another.
Marriage has evolved. It is also a legal matter that must be registered in the courts to be valid. Therefore a civil matter that everyone should have the opprotunity to have.
The matter of it being holy is highly debatable. Shalom
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post #67 of 161 Old 07-01-2012, 09:15 AM
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I wonder if man's perception of "Holy" has evolved.

I agree that everyone should have the right to legal marriage. I am so thankful that I can put my husband on my insurance at work and it would be unfair if I couldn't. Same would hold true if he were female. I would still have the responsibility.

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post #68 of 161 Old 07-01-2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dbarabians View Post
The matter of it being holy is highly debatable. Shalom
It is debatable by you, but not for everyone. To 65 million Catholics in the US, by far the largest religious group, marriage is a holy sacrament. If you don't know what a Catholic sacrament is, google it. And to the vast majority of the 30 million Baptists, 12 million Methodists, 8 million Lutherans, 4 million Presbyterians, and so on, it is indeed a "holy matrimony".

Here's a are in the minority, along with the atheists and agnostics. Here's another newsflash...everyone can't have their way.

Why the heck is it that evey minority wants the things THEY believe in to be the law of the land, but it is horribly wrong when the majority wants the same thing? Does anyone not know what a Democracy is? The majority rules. If you choose to live here, you should abide by what the majority dictates. That is partially what is wrong with Washington - far too much pandering to minority groups, with the Democrats obviously leading the way.

Homosexual marriage may come to full fruition some day, but to the vast majority of Americans, a homosexual "marriage" is not a marriage at all, and certainly is not a union blessed by God. Most Americans, including me, on the other hand, approve civil unions between homosexuals, and are perfectly willing to grant these unions the same rights as spousal rights. There is absolutely no need for homosexuals to intrude on what most consider the meaning of marriage other than to be obnoxious. If homosexuals must attach a tag to their unions to somehow feel good, why not call the unions another name than marriage? The term marriage is already taken and homosexual unions do not meet the definition...
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Last edited by Faceman; 07-01-2012 at 09:32 AM.
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post #69 of 161 Old 07-01-2012, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by horseandme View Post
This is completely agenst my morals. Don't jump on me for not agreeing with you.
Interesting, since in previous posts you stated you don't have an issue with gays, but now it's 'against your morals'. So which is it, little girl?

I'm not sure what gays have to do with YOUR morals, but Christ preached love, tolerance, and equality, which were considered extremely controversial ideas. He went against the established views of what was 'right' and 'moral' in his time.

Morality, like religion and culture, is ever changing. Polygamy used to be considered right and proper, and some religions and cultures still believe and practice it. Other groups believe that marriage should be monogamous, and for them polygamy is a sin. Depending on to which group you belong, it's considered either right or sinful.

So, which group is right? Only the one to which you belong? That's how religions divide and conquer, by declaring that anyone who doesn't believe as they do are sinful, wrong, and doomed to hellfire. Sorry, but I don't think God has hatreds or prejudices, nor do I think He's so petty as to care what consenting adults do with and to each other in the privacy of their own homes.

You're allowed to disagree with me, but that doesn't make my opinions wrong, sinful, or morally reprehensible.
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post #70 of 161 Old 07-01-2012, 10:01 AM
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I have no issue with gay marriage. I don't find it uncomfortable, and I think that showing affection in public [to an extent] is more than acceptable for both homosexuals and heterosexuals.( I'm talking about a kiss/hug, not full on public foreplay which would make anyone uncomfortable regardless of the participants) If they want to flaunt they're love, by all means, I'm happy that they found someone and I'm happy that they're happy. If they want to get married, all the power to them, they [should] have every right to, they aren't hurting anyone if they want to start a family or be together, after all, it isn't anyone's business but they're own how they live and what they do.

I grew up in a very homophobic family. My sister and mother being the 'most accepting', in that they only share they're discomfort about it and leave it at that. My dad being a step up, who, as I recall, was worried that I was gay because I was holding hands with a girl ( who has gay parents ) on our way to school when we were 7 ( seriously?). My uncle and auntie are the most abrasive, going out of they're way to state facts in the bible about how 'wrong' it is, my uncle refuses to watch shows with gay characters ( modern family for example, hilarious show but he hates it because of the gay couple specifically), in our last meeting, we somehow get on the subject of gay marriage, and he brings out his bible, and states that aids was created by god as a punishment for the gay 'epidemic', and that that great flood was also created because of increasing homosexual acts. Anyway, long story short, I love my family dearly, they are by all means good people, yet the extremes that certain members go to voice they're hatred is rather offensive to me.

I have little to no issue with they're opinion, if they don't agree with gay marriage or the LGBT community, I don't mind. I have an issue with how they outwardly make offensive claims regardless of who's around. They have every right to voice opinions but doing something in a disrespectful manner is where I start feeling offended. They are the main reason why I often feel alone in my family, not because of this, but because they have such strong and overpowering views that I do not agree with. I am the first member in my immediate family to refuse they're religion despite my upbringing, and have very different views of the world and how it works, etc. Anyway, that's a bit off topic.

Long story short. I am personally for the rights of the LGBT community. I accept the opinions of both sides, I only have an issue with the offensive and disrespectful lengths that some people go to prove they're views ( this is true for both sides I suppose though )
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