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Gay Rights

This is a discussion on Gay Rights within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category

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        07-01-2012, 10:02 AM
      #71
    Weanling
    My husband and I were married in a church, however the document we signed was secular, from our county courthouse. Marriage in America is NOT ABOUT RELIGION, it is a legal contact between between two people. Does the church divide your property, make you pay spousal support or child support in a divorce? No, that is our government because it is a legal contract. I don't believe we should force churches to perform gay marriages but I definitely don't believe they should be able to prevent them either!
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        07-01-2012, 11:06 AM
      #72
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by redpony    
    My husband and I were married in a church, however the document we signed was secular, from our county courthouse. Marriage in America is NOT ABOUT RELIGION, it is a legal contact between between two people. Does the church divide your property, make you pay spousal support or child support in a divorce? No, that is our government because it is a legal contract. I don't believe we should force churches to perform gay marriages but I definitely don't believe they should be able to prevent them either!
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    You are wrong...please see my previoius post. For the majority of Americans, marriage is indeed a matter of religion. If it is not to you, that is just fine - I am not one to criticize others' beliefs about marriage. But to say marriage is not a matter of religion in the US is absurd - meaning no offense, of course...
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        07-01-2012, 11:46 AM
      #73
    Showing
    Face, I do agree that those who ascribe to certain religious beliefs consider marriage a sacrament.

    That's no more wrong than any other opinion, and religious organizations have the right to deny marrying those of whose lifestyles they disapprove.

    But to try and push religious beliefs as a way to keep rights and benefits from a certain segment of society, is where I have problems.
         
        07-01-2012, 11:59 AM
      #74
    Weanling
    Face,I believe you missed my point. The fact that we engaged in the holy sacrament of marriage in a church did not mean we were married in the eyes of the law. Your (collective) religious freedom cannot be allowed to impinge on my (collective) civil rights.
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        07-01-2012, 12:18 PM
      #75
    Foal
    Mar-riage
    (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law
    (2)
    : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage>

    Thanks, Merriam-Webster!



    Marriage |ˈmarɪdʒ|

    Noun
    1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically as recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife
    informal: a union between partners of the same sex; a civil partnership.

    Thanks, Oxford Dictionary!


    Don't you love that awkward moment when the definition of marriage doesn't refer to religion at all?
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        07-01-2012, 12:42 PM
      #76
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by redpony    
    Face,I believe you missed my point. The fact that we engaged in the holy sacrament of marriage in a church did not mean we were married in the eyes of the law. Your (collective) religious freedom cannot be allowed to impinge on my (collective) civil rights.
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    Yes, I understand - and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. What I tae exception to is this: "Marriage in America is NOT ABOUT RELIGION". As I have ponited out, marriage in America IS about religion. Just because a minority does not consider marriage a holy union does not change facts. And I would ask: list 1 single civil right that is being iminged upon you becasuse you do not consider your marriage a holy union...just 1. A teeny tiny one will do...
         
        07-01-2012, 12:49 PM
      #77
    Foal
    The LEGAL act of marriage (see my two definitions above) should not be about religion. It's a LEGAL ACT. Not a religious one. If you get a rouge priest to "marry" you to your heterosexual partner in a field and the paperwork (like...say...the LEGAL document that is a marriage certificate/license) isn't there/signed then it isn't a marriage. It's a rouge priest and two people standing in a field after saying "I do" and kissing.
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        07-01-2012, 12:53 PM
      #78
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
    Face, I do agree that those who ascribe to certain religious beliefs consider marriage a sacrament.

    That's no more wrong than any other opinion, and religious organizations have the right to deny marrying those of whose lifestyles they disapprove.

    But to try and push religious beliefs as a way to keep rights and benefits from a certain segment of society, is where I have problems.
    I never said it was wrong - only that the majority of people consider marriage a holy union.

    And no one is pushing religious beliefs - certainly not me. If you ever catch me doing that (which isn't going to happen), let me know. I get a little preachy about morals now and then because I think as a society our morals are fallen to a level barely above canines. But I never preach religion.

    And I don't subscribe to depriving anyone of anything. But "marriage" is already taken. There is no need for homosexuals - or anyone else - to degrade its meaning to (worldwide) billions of people. What if homosexuals wanted to address the cross or the crucifix as their group symbol? Would that seem right? There is no difference - they can call their union anything they want - bullmoose if they chose. "We are getting bullmoosed on Saturday". There is abolutely no need for them to use the term marriage - as I said earlier, other than being obnoxioius.. After all, just who is it that is being "pushy" here?...
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        07-01-2012, 01:00 PM
      #79
    Foal
    Degrade? Really?

    Oh, and a cross is a cross is a cross. Norway, Switzerland and Denmark have crosses on their flags so, clearly, they must be stealing it from Christians. SOMEONE CALL THE POPE!

    No-one gets to dibs words or symbols. Seriously.
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        07-01-2012, 01:58 PM
      #80
    Foal
    I am a Christian. I work with a gay guy, and I love working with him, he has a great personality.

    But according to the Bible, which I am a firm follower of, the homosexual act is sin. People say, well that's not fair, they were born that way. This may be true, I really don't know, but I do know that EVERYONE was born with a sin nature. And being gay is not a sin, the lifestyle is.

    What people tend to forget is that it's not the only sin! So is adultry. So is fornication. So is stealing. Lying. Coveting, and even overeating! The last two sins are more "socially acceptable" in church settings but just because it's accepted doesn't mean it's ok.

    Our country is in shambles in general. You see that with the high divorce rates, so many abortions, the bad economy. They are the symptoms of a greater problem which I believe is in the church. Most Christians aren't living in Christ!!! We are so lukewarm, we are judgemental and unloving. We state the problem, but we don't offer solutions. We have accepted Christ without "counting the cost". We have not taken up our cross and followed Him. We live easy lives and sit in judgement of others while we ourselves have not taken the time to KNOW our Lord and become like Him.

    My point of my ramblings was that being gay is not sin, but yes, living that lifestyle is. But it's not the only one and Christians forget that. We Christians need to get our act together instead of just expecting the rest of the world to.

    Also, a lot of people, including Christians think that because I'm straight I can date whoever I want. This is not true. It has to be another Christian, and more than that, because I am following God it has to be someone I know He truly approves of for me. As everything we do should be for the glory of God.
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