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Gay Rights

This is a discussion on Gay Rights within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category
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    07-01-2012, 02:07 PM
  #81
Foal
And I know what it's like to say no to someone you love and have to break off a relationship because it is dishonoring to God. It hurts like crazy, but it was worth it. But I had a reason that was built on a stronger relationship with a God that had given me anything.

I know I listed a lot of rules in my last post but it's not about the rules, it's about a relationship with Jesus Christ. And it's about faith, grace, and love. It's not by works we are saved, but as we come to know our savior and spend time with Him regularly we become more like Him. Sinning less is an outward symptom of an inward change.

Again, living a homosexual lifestyle is sin. Which is why I do not support it. But it's not something that's just going to go away because of any laws we do or don't have or because of any judgement we pass on these people. If Christians want change the country needs a revival, not laws.
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    07-01-2012, 04:18 PM
  #82
Teen Forum Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
So you don't see gays as people deserving the same rights and equality that you enjoy, merely because you were born hetero?

I don't hate you, but I do pity you because you seem to believe that being gay is a disease or condition comparable to alcoholism or drug addiction.

I also consider myself a Christian, but I believe that all of us are equal in God's eyes. Christ taught acceptance and equality, not bigotry disguised as 'hate the sin but love the sinner'.

My father was a dyed in the wool Irish Catholic of the old school, and yet he didn't think homosexuality was a sin, perversion, or that gays were somehow lesser human beings. He believed, as I do, that a person's sexuality is set before they're born. It's no more a choice than it was for me to 'choose' heterosexuality.

I can disagree with your opinion without hating you, but I do find it extremely disappointing that you were convinced going in that somehow you'd be persecuted for it so immediately went on the offensive, accusing the rest of us of hatred.

Gays are people, and should be accorded the same rights and privileges as those who only by an accident of birth are hetereosexual.
If you will reread my post, you'll see that never once did I mention that gays are not deserving of equality and all of the rights that I am able to have. I do believe that they should have the healthcare, insurance, etc that I have access to because they are human beings, just like I am.

I merely said that yes I do believe that being gay is a sin, and that is not going to change. That doesnt mean that I'm degrading or otherwise lessening these people to myself. Its not like I'm perfect. Any of you who know me know that I mess up a lot as well. I don't think that gay people are any more ****ed that I am. The only problem is this.

I'm eternally ****ed. As a human being, I have faults, and standing before a holy and righteous God, I'm found guilty of many things. I'm no more holy than a murderer is because my Lord sees all sin as being the same. That's why I constantly have to be appologizing and trying to correct my behaviors that cause sin, and that's why they need to appologize and change the behaviors that cause their sins. We ALL need to work towards bettering ourselves, no matter who we are.

Yes, Christ taught acceptance and equality, but he also taught us to hold eachother accountable for our actions and for others actions.

You can pity me if you'd like, it hasn't been the first time nor will it be the last. However, you should know that I don't think of it as a disease or a condition. I merely believe that it is a sin that is formed by our human natures and that, with help, can also be taken away. Its happened.

I personally do not think that certain people are born homosexual, and that it is nurtured by a certain mindset instead. If theres something genetic that causes you to be that way, why does it take many people so long to 'realize' that they are 'gay' and change from being heterosexual to homosexual? I've known many a people who have married, had children, been happy, gotten bored, and 'realized' themselves and decided that they were gay, leaving their wife and children while they go find a new partner that does what they feel like a spouse should do. How would they be explained? I don't see any gay people disincluding them and saying that they arent 'real' gays, so what about it?

I'm not critisizing, I'm trying to understand. It seems so controversial and illogical to me to fall back on that, or to use the fact that over -this amount- of species of animals are known to have gay relations which is basically using a crutch, then blasting me for using the Bible (which, by the way, was writte by God, not man) to support what I believe.
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    07-01-2012, 05:06 PM
  #83
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by srh1    
I am a Christian. I work with a gay guy, and I love working with him, he has a great personality.

But according to the Bible, which I am a firm follower of, the homosexual act is sin. People say, well that's not fair, they were born that way. This may be true, I really don't know, but I do know that EVERYONE was born with a sin nature. And being gay is not a sin, the lifestyle is.

What people tend to forget is that it's not the only sin! So is adultry. So is fornication. So is stealing. Lying. Coveting, and even overeating! The last two sins are more "socially acceptable" in church settings but just because it's accepted doesn't mean it's ok.

Our country is in shambles in general. You see that with the high divorce rates, so many abortions, the bad economy. They are the symptoms of a greater problem which I believe is in the church. Most Christians aren't living in Christ!!! We are so lukewarm, we are judgemental and unloving. We state the problem, but we don't offer solutions. We have accepted Christ without "counting the cost". We have not taken up our cross and followed Him. We live easy lives and sit in judgement of others while we ourselves have not taken the time to KNOW our Lord and become like Him.

My point of my ramblings was that being gay is not sin, but yes, living that lifestyle is. But it's not the only one and Christians forget that. We Christians need to get our act together instead of just expecting the rest of the world to.

Also, a lot of people, including Christians think that because I'm straight I can date whoever I want. This is not true. It has to be another Christian, and more than that, because I am following God it has to be someone I know He truly approves of for me. As everything we do should be for the glory of God.

I too, believe along the same lines. And I too have gay friends, we have discussed the whole gay life and religious beliefs often, believe it or not. Here is the same thing I tell them.

We are all born with a "sin" nature. That's just the way it is. We are all pulled and tempted to sin in every possible way. I am a sinner, and the worst of sinners, and in no way deserve to have the living water that Christ provided for me.

But homosexual behavior is not a "life style", it is a SIN. Just because we are a more modern world and people think we have progressed in our thinking doesn't change that. So I love the person, but hate the sin in their life because it leads to ultimate destruction. I also hate the sin in my life. The ways I am tempted are not the same ways the homosexual is, but there is temptation for me too. And yes, sometimes I fall down and have to get on my knees and repent.

You see, Christ gave us a wonderful gift, our eternal salvation, for free. But a true Christian walk begins with repentance. And folks, repentance is more than a half-hearted attempt to say "I'm sorry." Repentance is a heart wrenching "Oh my Lord I am so sorry for my sins, please forgive me!" and choosing to WALK AWAY FROM THE SIN.
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    07-01-2012, 05:58 PM
  #84
Yearling
Ooookay, this thread is going towards religious debates which would be wonderful if I was not an atheist / agnostic / maybe'ist.

No matter what your beliefs are, steer away from trouble and try not to kill anybody. It's really not worth it.

These being said, I salute you and off I go.

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    07-01-2012, 06:03 PM
  #85
Weanling
Inaclick, I understand what you are saying, but I never had enough faith to be an atheist or agnostic. That takes a kind of faith all by itself.
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    07-01-2012, 06:08 PM
  #86
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly    
Degrade? Really?

Oh, and a cross is a cross is a cross. Norway, Switzerland and Denmark have crosses on their flags so, clearly, they must be stealing it from Christians. SOMEONE CALL THE POPE!

No-one gets to dibs words or symbols. Seriously.
Posted via Mobile Device
Yes, really. Is there something in my post you don't understand? Using the term marriage, which is a term representing a holy union, for a homosexual union is degrading both the term and the instituion...as I have already said.

Oh, and if you do 30 seconds worth of research, you will find the crosses on the 3 flags you mention represent Christianity - they are not stealing from it or using the cross for something altogether different...
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    07-01-2012, 06:55 PM
  #87
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
Interesting, since in previous posts you stated you don't have an issue with gays, but now it's 'against your morals'. So which is it, little girl?

I'm not sure what gays have to do with YOUR morals, but Christ preached love, tolerance, and equality, which were considered extremely controversial ideas. He went against the established views of what was 'right' and 'moral' in his time.

Morality, like religion and culture, is ever changing. Polygamy used to be considered right and proper, and some religions and cultures still believe and practice it. Other groups believe that marriage should be monogamous, and for them polygamy is a sin. Depending on to which group you belong, it's considered either right or sinful.

So, which group is right? Only the one to which you belong? That's how religions divide and conquer, by declaring that anyone who doesn't believe as they do are sinful, wrong, and doomed to hellfire. Sorry, but I don't think God has hatreds or prejudices, nor do I think He's so petty as to care what consenting adults do with and to each other in the privacy of their own homes.

You're allowed to disagree with me, but that doesn't make my opinions wrong, sinful, or morally reprehensible.
Getting drunk is againnst my morals too, but I don't hate people who do it.Not that they are the same. Actually at church today he preached on this.Everyone should love everyone and respect them. I do not disrespect them at all.They are humans just like everyone else. Loath the sin not the sinner.And the little girl remark,yes I am a little girl I guess, but I have values and beliefs and I am not ashamed of them and I am aloud to say it.God does not hate gays,but in fact it is a sin and all sins are stilll sins no matter why they do it.The bible should be used! That is how we know what God expects from us along with church and prayer. The bible is the most important thing next to god himself,so yes I will tell you what it says and I will agree with it. If you don't so be it, but I will not change my mind no matter how many people tell me other wise. I have a gay friend and I love him to death and no I am not homophobic at all.If you do not like what I believe in do not read my posts on this subject. Sorry for the harsh tone and I don't mean to be rude.
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    07-01-2012, 07:08 PM
  #88
Started
I think it appalling when people of a religion expect others to live by their moral code. Essentially what you would like is the Christian version of Sharia law. I have a lot of Muslim friends from all over the world and none of them think it's right to force their beliefs on others - that extreme element sadly seems more prevalent among American Christians.

I'm very glad most of us in Australia (and more of us every day) really don't give a toss about religion. I'm not interested in having my immortal soul saved as I don't believe I have one, and I reserve the right to have my own beliefs respected. Religion, in my eyes, has always been a restrictor of progress. Practice what you wish and no one should stop you, but a country is limited that bases legal decisions on what some old book (whichever book that might be) with medieval attitudes decides is "sinful" or not.
Posted via Mobile Device
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    07-01-2012, 07:19 PM
  #89
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceman    
It is debatable by you, but not for everyone. To 65 million Catholics in the US, by far the largest religious group, marriage is a holy sacrament. If you don't know what a Catholic sacrament is, google it. And to the vast majority of the 30 million Baptists, 12 million Methodists, 8 million Lutherans, 4 million Presbyterians, and so on, it is indeed a "holy matrimony".

Here's a newsflash...you are in the minority, along with the atheists and agnostics. Here's another newsflash...everyone can't have their way.

Why the heck is it that evey minority wants the things THEY believe in to be the law of the land, but it is horribly wrong when the majority wants the same thing? Does anyone not know what a Democracy is? The majority rules. If you choose to live here, you should abide by what the majority dictates. That is partially what is wrong with Washington - far too much pandering to minority groups, with the Democrats obviously leading the way.

Homosexual marriage may come to full fruition some day, but to the vast majority of Americans, a homosexual "marriage" is not a marriage at all, and certainly is not a union blessed by God. Most Americans, including me, on the other hand, approve civil unions between homosexuals, and are perfectly willing to grant these unions the same rights as spousal rights. There is absolutely no need for homosexuals to intrude on what most consider the meaning of marriage other than to be obnoxious. If homosexuals must attach a tag to their unions to somehow feel good, why not call the unions another name than marriage? The term marriage is already taken and homosexual unions do not meet the definition...

A democracy can be every bit as oppressive as a dictatorship. Majority rule doesnt make it right, or have anything to do with freedom. That's why we have a Constitution and Bill of rights to keep the majority in check. Go back and read history where the majority thought it was ok to slaughter Jews, enslave blacks and on and on.
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    07-01-2012, 07:22 PM
  #90
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilHorseOfDoom    
I think it appalling when people of a religion expect others to live by their moral code. Essentially what you would like is the Christian version of Sharia law. I have a lot of Muslim friends from all over the world and none of them think it's right to force their beliefs on others - that extreme element sadly seems more prevalent among American Christians.

I'm very glad most of us in Australia (and more of us every day) really don't give a toss about religion. I'm not interested in having my immortal soul saved as I don't believe I have one, and I reserve the right to have my own beliefs respected. Religion, in my eyes, has always been a restrictor of progress. Practice what you wish and no one should stop you, but a country is limited that bases legal decisions on what some old book (whichever book that might be) with medieval attitudes decides is "sinful" or not.
Posted via Mobile Device
I get it. And I understand it too. But I have to respectfully tell you that if I saw you getting ready to walk off a cliff I would warn you, even if you thought I was violating your "rights" in some way with that warning!
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