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George Zimmerman..

6K views 75 replies 17 participants last post by  PaintHorseMares 
#1 ·
Today I was reading about an on-going case in the states about George Zimmerman, who shot an unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, (apparently) in self defence in a gated community.

Trayvon Martin's family and supporters have said Mr Zimmerman killed him in cold blood after suspecting the teenager was a criminal based on his race and the fact he was wearing a hooded sweatshirt.......The neighbourhood watchman's supporters have said he only opened fire after the teenager attacked him, broke his nose and banged his head against the pavement.

Zimmerman has now set up a website so people can give him donations to pay toward his living and legal expenses!

Zimmerman has not been charged because under Florida's "stand your ground" self-defence law individuals are granted scope to use force if they feel seriously in danger.... and now hes gone missing..on the run in my opinion!

Whats your opinion on this case? .. To be honest I find it very hard to be certain of whos in the wrong, Like you have Zimmerman saying Trayvon attacked him and then you have Trayvons family saying he was a good lad, would'nt get involved in disputes and was just in the wrong place at the wrong time..

When it comes to this "stand your ground" law, personally I find this very disturbing. Coming from a country that people used to kill eachother because of their Religion, sometimes ethnic background, but 90% of the time religion, If we had that law in Ireland it would get heaviley abused....I was called catholic scum oneday because Iv redy/auburn hair and was wearing a green dress...I would end up afaird walking through certain areas incase people thought I was a threat, could just shoot me and nothing would be done?

Like wether you support Zimmerman or not the usual proceddings would be that he would be taken in for questioning to find out exactly what happened. From what I hear on the news the police just made sure Zimmerman was ok because he said straight away that it was self defence so they let him go on home...That dosent seem normal to me when a 17yr old lad is laying dead on the road.

I'll not go to much into what I feel about people been allowed guns in their home because I know that its a fairly common thing in America and I dont want to rattle any cages but I do think that laws should be tighter on who can get a Licence and maybe it should be complusory for them to do a training course, My granda had a shot gun for hunting but he had to a 3month course and keep the gun in a locked trunk in the basement and keep the bullets in the attic and the garda would visit every few months to check that he still stored it like that.. and that was in the 40's!!... Does that happen in America??

Like was it really nessacary for Zimmerman to shoot Trayvon dead? If he really needed to shoot could he not have shot him in the arm or leg so that it would wounded him and Zimmerman could have phoned the police...

Whats your thoughts on this?
 
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#2 ·
I don't think the press has given a very accurate account of what really happened here. I think we have to wait until the story is told in court (yes, he will be charged, of that I'm sure) and then countered by any forensic clues available. I have heard too many contrasting stories to even begin to believe I know what happened.

The stand your ground law only applies if you are being seriously threatened or attacked. Simply believing you might be and following a person you believe is "up to no good" does not give you the right to invoke this law's protection.

It will be interesting to see what is unwrapped in this case.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I agree with Allison.

There are too many conflicting stories for me to form an opinion of his guilt or innocence, although I'm very much in agreement that he needs to stand trial. Hopefully, forensics will tell the real story.

As far as the right to bear arms, you're not an American so don't think like one. We take that right very seriously. I have two guns, and not only have a license for them, but have taken firearm safety courses. Guns are nothing more than tools, and ANY tool can be deadly in the wrong hands.
 
#7 ·
... and I'm a gun owner .. and DH is a concealed carrier. I believe in self defense and wouldn't hesitate to shoot someone in my home if I felt threatened.

This case is very troubling .. for race relations, as well as to our right to bear arms..

Will be interesting to see all the details come out in court.
 
#12 ·
... and I'm a gun owner .. and DH is a concealed carrier. I believe in self defense and wouldn't hesitate to shoot someone in my home if I felt threatened.
Oh im not against people defending themselves in their own homes, If someone broke into my home I wouldnt be worried about their safety. You hear so many cases over here of ones breaking into peoples homes, the home owner attacking them in self defence and then the burgular trying to sue them!! I just mean that you do hear of alot of wackos having guns and I think that there should be tighter regulations for getting one.. not saying the like of yourself shouldnt be allowed one for self defence.. out of interest whats are the regulations in America for getting a gun?
 
#9 ·
He has officially been charged. The original facts of the case was that Zimmerman called the police stating someone "suspicious" was in the neighborhood. The police asked if he was following the suspect, and he said yes. He was told to not follow him. If I have right to be somewhere and feel threatened because someone if following me, i may become aggressive, in my own self defense. I am interested to see what plays out as well.

This could all have been avoided if Zimmerman let the cops do their job.
 
#10 ·
If they didn't press charges the man is a sitting duck anyways.
All people who have issued death threats and bounties for this man needs to be prosecuted. TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.
As to the whole issue who knows, needs to be and like said before he is going to court.
I do hope all the information about him and the terrible situation comes to light so we can put this tragic mess to rest.
Praying for BOTH of their families!
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#14 ·
Flygap - I know what you mean about all the threats, etc.

I had someone tell me today that they HAD to charge him because if they didn't, there would be riots ... aaaaarghhhh.

I said, NO .. they don't HAVE to charge him in fear of riots .. they will charge him because there is sufficient evidence of a crime...

Drives me crazy!
 
#15 ·
Breaking news is that he's being arrested and charged with murder at 6:00 pm tonight, so whoever said he's on the run is incorrect. They know exactly where to find him.

I don't know what degree of murder they'll charge him with, as that's up to the FL state prosecutor's office and the police.

I doubt they'll go for first degree, since I don't think it was premeditated. Doesn't make what he did right, I just don't think they can make a first degree charge stick.
 
#16 ·
Derrygirl .. I understood that .. no worries. You do have to take a course to be a concealed carrier, which includes a background check.

Unfortunately, many people carry that aren't licensed, you aren't required to be licensed to have a firearm in your house, and in Texas you can have one in your vehicle without a license.

Also, just as I suspect with Zimmerman, being overzealous isn't a crime, until you shoot someone without cause.... so he was "clean" right up until that point...

It's a bloody mess, that's what it is.

imo
 
#17 ·
I'm getting sick of the photos they are showing on some channels of the news.
Yahoo's photo shows a cute kid smiling, on other sources they show him as older and frowning, same photo across the board with Zimmerman.
What are you guys seeing? The MEDIA is a mess.

I just can't BELIEVE what some people are saying/have said (news, not here, LOL!).
First degree is off the table I think.
 
#31 ·
... or better yet ...

..when the 911 operator told him to STOP FOLLOWING HIM .. he could have walked away..

imo

This!

When average people take law enforcement into their own hands, lawlessness is often the result.

If you dont' like hearing all this stuff about him in the media (namely FoX and CNN) turn the TV off and do something else. It sucks that this man should be tried by the media instead of a judge and jury.
 
#24 ·
Yep, if the state prosecutor isn't willing to go before a Grand Jury, then first degree was never going to be considered.

Derry girl, what you don't understand is that it's VERY difficult to shoot someone in an extremity, which is why the idea is to shoot for the biggest target, which is the trunk of the body.

If you're going to pick up a firearm you have to be prepared to kill something. Not scare, wound, or threaten. That kind of garbage you only see in the movies. Nobody who is properly trained will take out a gun with the express purpose of NOT shooting to kill.

Guns are deadly tools, and unfortunately too many idiots who have no clue how to properly use them seem to own them.
 
#25 ·
If you're going to pick up a firearm you have to be prepared to kill something. Not scare, wound, or threaten. That kind of garbage you only see in the movies. Nobody who is properly trained will take out a gun with the express purpose of NOT shooting to kill.
I completley understand the point your trying to make but in this case, this was a teenager that was unarmed... Yes there are and always will be circumstances where if someone is shot and killed it can be justified as self defence but in this case I will strongly stand by my opinion that this young lad should not have been killed. If Zimmerman was a guard for this gated community and was allowed to be armed he must have had some training that would have involved target practice and Im sure that he could have aimed for the leg or even fired a warning shot.. IMO
 
#26 ·
IF Zimmerman was being "severely" beaten by a very athletic large teenager then I think that justifies self defense. According to the "stand your ground" law though it is equal defense for equal force.
People and law enforcement who own/use guns are trained shoot to kill. The only reason a SANE person would pull a gun is because their life is threatened which is the only justifiable reason to pull a gun. Which COULD be the case here. We don't know.
The media and Zimmerman are saying that he did heed the dispatchers advice and he did head back to his truck where he was attacked. IF this is proven to be the case he had every right to protect himself. If it were me, a small female, I think things would be VERY different.

If he was being beaten then he couldn't have possibly shot for a limb, he couldn't according to the law shoot until he was physically attacked. Which is what he is stating. IDK. A warning shot would have been much better and I wish for anything that's what happened. Sad.
 
#27 · (Edited)
No, being properly trained means someone aims for the biggest target, not the extremities. Don't believe what you see in the movies and on TV.

Whatever Zimmerman did or didn't do, or what he thought he was justified in doing, the fact is that he shot this young man. I don't know the whole story, and neither do any of the rest of us. Right now, it's simply speculation based on hysteria and biased media reports. Plus, since none of us were there, Zimmerman may have believed the teen had a gun as well. Did the young man even live in the gated community where he was shot?

I'm NOT justifying what Zimmerman did, nor am I sticking up for him. What I AM saying is that none of us know what really happened that night. The only thing any of us know for certain is that a young man is dead.

By your own admission, you know nothing about firearms or the training people take to become proficient with them. Nobody, not even the police, take out their gun and try to shoot someone in the leg or arm. It simply isn't the mindset trained into those who handle and use firearms on a daily basis.

If I'm taking out my gun, I'm going to shoot to kill. That is the only mindset to have, otherwise I could wind up on the business end of my own gun. The idea is to totally incapacitate your foe, not wound them.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Don't believe what you see in the movies and on TV.
I didnt say I was taking any of my thoughts/opinions from the movies or TV. I just remember a case here a few years ago that there was a man in a housing estate basically causing a riot and welding a sword at people, The guarda shoot him in the lower leg..he fell to the ground and they were able to get him cuffed and take him in and charge him.

I think we might be getting mixed reports, what I heard on the news was that Trayvon was walking down the road past this gated community and Zimmerman basically just opened fire on him, no word of a fit breaking out. The first I heard of him apparently been attacked was what I read online earlier. I also heard that the police took in zimmermans father for questioning.. who knows maybe he hit his son to make zimmermans story fit... just a thought am not saying thats what happened
 
#34 ·
Eh, there have been plenty of murderers get off over here, or get such a ridiculously small sentence it hardly seemed to matter.

Regardless of the prison time, should he be found guilty of murder, that makes him a convicted felon
Even if he gets a short sentence, that conviction never goes away and will affect his ability to find a decent job and housing, as well as stripping him of his right to vote and own firearms.
 
#35 ·
Today I was reading about an on-going case in the states about George Zimmerman, who shot an unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, (apparently) in self defence in a gated community.

Trayvon Martin's family and supporters have said Mr Zimmerman killed him in cold blood after suspecting the teenager was a criminal based on his race and the fact he was wearing a hooded sweatshirt.......The neighbourhood watchman's supporters have said he only opened fire after the teenager attacked him, broke his nose and banged his head against the pavement.

Zimmerman has now set up a website so people can give him donations to pay toward his living and legal expenses!

Zimmerman has not been charged because under Florida's "stand your ground" self-defence law individuals are granted scope to use force if they feel seriously in danger.... and now hes gone missing..on the run in my opinion!
stand your ground means there is zero obligation to retreat or break contact. It does not mean you can draw down on someone for just being there. There must be a reasonable perceived threat, such as a visible weapon, being attacked, or otherwise in imminent danger
Whats your opinion on this case? .. To be honest I find it very hard to be certain of whos in the wrong, Like you have Zimmerman saying Trayvon attacked him and then you have Trayvons family saying he was a good lad, would'nt get involved in disputes and was just in the wrong place at the wrong time..
I don't personally believe squat in the media. Every news entity has its own agenda, puts a wicked spin on the words, and are all driven by greed instead of principle. The family will always say the victim was wonderful and harmless, never minding that he may be a multiple strike goat molester or violent criminal or juvenile delinquent.

When it comes to this "stand your ground" law, personally I find this very disturbing. Coming from a country that people used to kill eachother because of their Religion, sometimes ethnic background, but 90% of the time religion, If we had that law in Ireland it would get heaviley abused....I was called catholic scum oneday because Iv redy/auburn hair and was wearing a green dress...I would end up afaird walking through certain areas incase people thought I was a threat, could just shoot me and nothing would be done?

Like wether you support Zimmerman or not the usual proceddings would be that he would be taken in for questioning to find out exactly what happened. From what I hear on the news the police just made sure Zimmerman was ok because he said straight away that it was self defence so they let him go on home...That dosent seem normal to me when a 17yr old lad is laying dead on the road.
Obviously, the cops saw sufficient evidence to corroborate Zimmermans story, which matched the initial inspection of the crime scene. It could also be that he got a lawyer involved from the start.

I'll not go to much into what I feel about people been allowed guns in their home because I know that its a fairly common thing in America and I dont want to rattle any cages but I do think that laws should be tighter on who can get a Licence and maybe it should be complusory for them to do a training course, My granda had a shot gun for hunting but he had to a 3month course and keep the gun in a locked trunk in the basement and keep the bullets in the attic and the garda would visit every few months to check that he still stored it like that.. and that was in the 40's!!... Does that happen in America??

Like was it really nessacary for Zimmerman to shoot Trayvon dead? If he really needed to shoot could he not have shot him in the arm or leg so that it would wounded him and Zimmerman could have phoned the police...
When involved in a fight of any type, fine motor skills go to pot, and you automatically revert to your most basic training received thats ingrained into your subconscious. There is little cognitive thought happening under extreme duress-it is all automatic "fight or flight" primal instincts.
Whats your thoughts on this?
As a firearms instructor, and former Urban Warfare Instructor in the Marines, i train my students firmly and properly to ingrain the methods into their subconscious mind.
To "shoot him in the arm or leg" is beyond preposterous, and is borderline ludacrous.
I was trained, and still train, to shoot center mass. That's the center of the chest for those not in the know.
We spent obnoxious amounts of time training to shoot 2 to the chest and 1 to the head.
Why? Two reasons. First, it incapacitates the attacker, and two, it eliminates the threat.
In any fight, it is win or lose, and losing is not an option.
In a fight for life, it is kill or be killed.
Did Zimmerman murder the kid?
I don't know.
I really don't much care either.
Truth be told, it raises more questions.
What was the kid doing in that area? It's a gated community. I'm pretty sure he wasn't selling cookies door to door.
What actions did the kid do to draw Zimmerman's attention?
What did he do to create the perceived threat?
Why didnt he comply with the instructions given?
Was he confrontational? Why?
All this will shake out in the trial, and i really hope that the truth comes out.
If the kid was wrong, he owns it.
If Zimmerman was wrong, he owns it, and does time in the slammer.
I think there will be some blame to be had on both sides.
I do hope that justice, and i do mean BLIND justice prevails.
There's entirely too much political grandstanding going on to ferret out any semblance of the truth at this point.
 
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