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Gun Control

This is a discussion on Gun Control within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category

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        08-24-2012, 03:14 PM
      #11
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    There is a town near me in North GA, that in the early 80' required every citizen to own a gun that lived in the city limits.
    The crime rate dropped by over 50% and not a single act of gun violence, with the exception of a couple of criminals being shot during a home invasion, if I remember correctly.

    The bleeding hearts sued the city about 10 years ago saying it could not force people to own a gun, crime rate has risen again since the lawsuit was upheld


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    Missy May likes this.
         
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        08-24-2012, 03:15 PM
      #12
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Missy May    
    Interesting. I wonder if the police were using rifles or handguns. I mean, if it turns out people were injured by "friendly fire" in this case, I would think it would indicate a rather large issue w training.
    I wouldn't be surprised if some could have been over penetration issues. Training a bullet to stop once in a body really IS a training issue

    As a law enforcement trainer, training can never REALLY simulate the real act of stepping into the line of fire of a person who wants to kill you. It really is a game changer.

    I suspect only a soldier with combat experience , or a cop, might actually understand this.
         
        08-24-2012, 03:41 PM
      #13
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by texasgal    
    i have pretty good gun control .. Use both hands .. Proper stance ... Center mass.
    roflmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Me, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    texasgal likes this.
         
        08-24-2012, 03:48 PM
      #14
    Green Broke
    I`m from Canada and we`ve just gone through decommissioning of the long gun registry. I did always think the registry was frightfully expensive and didn`t lower the crime rate. For me, I can take or leave firearms -- I believe them to be just a skill required tool no different than a surgeon`s knife or a carpenter`s band saw. I also believe someone with murderous and criminal intent will find a way to do their deed regardless of gun control legislation.

    Anyways, I have a question on the police side of things and I guess it`s really directed at Allison Finch (I apologize ahead of time for my cluelessness and inappropriateness on this thread). `m given to understand that a police officer shoots for body mass or center target (I`m sorry I don`t know the correct term) rather than try to wing somebody. I think they do this because shooting a hand gun doesn`t have the same accuracy of sighting as a rifle. So, is it practical for a police officer to use a shot gun instead a hand gun? Wouldn`t a shot gun with its spray pattern enable a police officer to disable a villian without having to kill them by `knocking the legs out from under them`so speak? Also, I do not think that a shot gun shoots as far as a hand gun so may reduce the chance of hitting bystanders who are further away?
         
        08-24-2012, 03:52 PM
      #15
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Allison Finch    
    So, it starts again....cop bashing. Why don't you try stepping into the line of fire some day?
    Whoa, gal! Stand down!

    The article itself stated that some of the bystanders MAY have been hit by police bullets. I don't find that surprising considering the time of day, especially since NYC is wall to wall people most of the time.

    It all happened so fast, I don't think people had time to get out of the way. Nobody's blaming the police. At least, I'm sure not!
    Allison Finch and Corporal like this.
         
        08-24-2012, 04:02 PM
      #16
    Trained
    ALL I know is that when we were practice shooting on the 4th of July, I would have GOTTEN that rascally rabbit if I had shot at him with a rifle, instead of a pistol!
    Seriously, it takes the police at least 15 minutes to get a dispatched officer to your house after a 9-1-1 call--LONGER where I live bc I'm 22 miles from the closest city. I depend upon my (inside) dogs, my door locks, and my weapons to keep ME safe. I never raise a gun to warn, and I aim, then shoot.
    My 30 lb dog (at the time) prevented a bugler from breaking into our house (1987). My 60 and 70 lbs dogs will probably discourage a criminal from approaching me or my house. I may NEVER have to shoot a person who is threatening me. If it ever happens his face won't be recognizable, or his heart bc I will aim to kill. I refuse to be like the latest statistic, who is the women who called 9-1-1 in Dallas recently. Her ex-husband was strangling her (audible on the call tape,) she died and the water in the tub was overflowing outside of the house for 2 days before any police checked on her BODY.
    Anti-gun sentiments are a very new thing in America. People moved west, built a home and stored a rifle on top of their fireplace. They hunted with a gun and used it for protection. Criminals always acquire guns where the locals outlaw it for law-abiders. I shake my head.
         
        08-24-2012, 04:19 PM
      #17
    Showing

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    Chevaux, wounding someone in the real world is impractical and takes a Crack Shot like in the Movies, anyone with firearms training Civilian or Law Enforcement is trained to shoot for Center Mass, this is to stop the Attacker and avoided collateral damage.

    A shotgun where there might be several people would be the worse thing in the world, defensive shotgun ammunition uses BB sized projectiles, usually 13 to 15 of them in the shell, the pattern and force of them could easily kill or wound a lot of people.

    Rifles are kinda of like Shotguns, too much firepower on a crowded city street


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    Chevaux likes this.
         
        08-24-2012, 04:19 PM
      #18
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Allison Finch    
    I wouldn't be surprised if some could have been over penetration issues. Training a bullet to stop once in a body really IS a training issue

    As a law enforcement trainer, training can never REALLY simulate the real act of stepping into the line of fire of a person who wants to kill you. It really is a game changer.

    I suspect only a soldier with combat experience , or a cop, might actually understand this.
    Well, it will be difficult to ever know w surety who, exactly, owned the rounds that injured these people. So, no telling.
    Fear, and one's response under intense fear, is understood by most all adult people that have lived outside of a bubble. So, people give a "wide swath" to anyone's actions in the line of fire. That is my fear.
    Procedures taught in training for a dangerous situation works b/c it is proven that most people remember it in an emergency. Some will not remember, okay, they just shouldn't be put in a "shoot out" situation ...but if the appropriate training were not drilled into them to begin with...not fine.
    It is pointless for anyone to speculate on this event until facts are known. But, if I were going to train someone to take someone out w extreme discrimination, and do so effectively...I think I would train them to reach for the appropriate weapon and ensure their marksmanship was excellent.
    Corporal likes this.
         
        08-24-2012, 04:27 PM
      #19
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Missy May    
    Interesting. I wonder if the police were using rifles or handguns. I mean, if it turns out people were injured by "friendly fire" in this case, I would think it would indicate a rather large issue w training.
    Missy, we normally agree, but in this case I believe that statement is wrong.

    How many more might have been hurt or killed by the gunman in this case or any other case if the Police just sat there and watched? Personally I think if I was there (and did not have my gun) I would want the Police to intervene, they probably have better training that I do anyway


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        08-24-2012, 04:29 PM
      #20
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chevaux    
    I`m from Canada and we`ve just gone through decommissioning of the long gun registry. I did always think the registry was frightfully expensive and didn`t lower the crime rate. For me, I can take or leave firearms -- I believe them to be just a skill required tool no different than a surgeon`s knife or a carpenter`s band saw. I also believe someone with murderous and criminal intent will find a way to do their deed regardless of gun control legislation.

    Anyways, I have a question on the police side of things and I guess it`s really directed at Allison Finch (I apologize ahead of time for my cluelessness and inappropriateness on this thread). `m given to understand that a police officer shoots for body mass or center target (I`m sorry I don`t know the correct term) rather than try to wing somebody. I think they do this because shooting a hand gun doesn`t have the same accuracy of sighting as a rifle. So, is it practical for a police officer to use a shot gun instead a hand gun? Wouldn`t a shot gun with its spray pattern enable a police officer to disable a villian without having to kill them by `knocking the legs out from under them`so speak? Also, I do not think that a shot gun shoots as far as a hand gun so may reduce the chance of hitting bystanders who are further away?

    Im not Allison, but there are many reasons why an officer would carry a handgun over a shot gun or any other long barreled gun. Kinda hard to wrestle someone down to handcuff them with a monster like that strapped to your side.
    During a struggle, it could be easier for a perp to grab and turn it on the officer.
    Also, struggle aside, if the larger gun is properly and safely secured it takes much longer to clear a holder and take aim against the impending threat.

    Most of the time officers, like soldiers, have only milliseconds to react to a given situation. An officer needs to be able to respond in the blink of an eye at all times while in uniform, and the handgun is generally quicker and safer in many many instances.
    But, it isnt something that needs to be out all the time like a soldier would need with his or her rifle.
    And, there are plenty of times the spray of a shotgun would be more harmful too.

    Fairly sure some would argue with you about the accuracy of using a handgun as well (depending on the distance) because some people are excellent marksmen or markswomen with handguns as well as with shotguns.
    Anyway, Im sure Allison can explain it much batter than I.
    Allison Finch and Chevaux like this.
         

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