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Is gun violence a social disease?

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        08-22-2012, 07:07 PM
      #31
    Showing
    Sorry for the ignorant question, but what ARE "recreational" drugs? Heroin and such or something else? I've only heard the term "street drugs".

    Both - alcohol and (street) drugs - are addictive and break lots of lives (kids as well as adults). I don't think one should underestimate either. Also from what I know (personal experience with some friends) it's very hard (if possible) to break the addiction.
         
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        08-22-2012, 07:58 PM
      #32
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lockwood    
    Missy- replies in bold. (Please don't shred me with your reply )

    All- (Just my ramblings here... bear with me)
    So I’m wondering…. Why can’t there be turtle laws/safeties with guns. There are with nearly everything else.
    (Turtle laws/safeties = things like -a warning with a hairdryer “Do not use hairdryer while bathing or taking a shower” [ because you know someone did exactly that at some point]
    And of course, seatbelts being made mandatory because people wouldn’t use them even though it saved lives.)

    I have no idea what these turtle laws could be, but I’m somewhat surprised how ridiculously easy it is to purchase guns. Not a whole lot harder than buying shoes. The article mantions what has been done in other areas od safety, why aren't guns held to the same safety levels?

    Since cars were mentioned… at least one needs to take a test to get a drivers license.
    Yeah, cars contribute more to fatalities than guns, and the strides that have been made for car and driving safety have been extensive, since no way in heck people will give up driving cars, so why can’t something be done about guns and the lack of responsibility of many of the people who own them. (Note I said many, not all.)

    As mentioned in other posts, lack of respect is a huge issue and yes it is.
    But if one is too stupid (sorry ignorant) or unable (for reasons not having to do with intelligence) to pass a drivers test, well that really affects their ability to work, get the things they needs and function in our world.
    I know many will say that people (in the US anyway) have the right to own guns and defend themselves, but being able to support oneself and function is of really high importance too, but guess what…. You no pass test you no get DL.
    Why should guns be so different?

    It is unsafe to turn loose someone with DUI convictions or the inability to follow driving laws to be on the road. So why is it so easy for such people to carry around a weapon that can so easily cause bodily harm with no training, screening, or testing what-so-ever?
    I just have to say, it is the per capita rate that matters, not the number. While more people might be murdered today, I honestly don't know if the percentage is higher since the "beginning".

    While people are required to obtain a license to legally operate a car, the requirement does not prevent them from operating one w/o a license. It also doesn't prevent them from driving while under the influence of drugs including alcohol. And, they do it all the time. I do not want to impose laws such that no civilian can drive in order to ensure only licensed drivers do.

    There is virtually no gun that is legally sold and manufactured in the US that does not include a safety. If not, there are "safety accessories" to lock it out. A revolver has safety built into the design. Vehicles safety? Safety was not a concern until tens of thousands of people died. Now car safety testing is a costly "science". The concept of impact and momentum were worked out long before cars were common. In otherwords, it was not ignorance, it was money. Seat belts became mandatory at the behest of insurance companies, not car companies.

    The guard rail thing - ditto. Installation of guard rails and other safety measures is also a matter of blood and money. If enough people die...they will build one. In many cases, it does not matter how "evident" the risk is or was before they took action.

    I have absolutely no problem with specifications - such as a gun (including its safety mechanism) must meet or exceed x, y or z specification. Of course, neither do most gun manufactures...and they advertise it. I have a problem w people looking for ways to get money to study something this far out in left field. If one wanted to actually contribute to solving the problem, they would start w something like - what are the penalties and how often and to what degree are they enforced for illegal sale and purchase of weapons? And, how effective is it? This is obviouse. People that intend to use a gun to commit a crime do not ordinarily purchase guns at the local gun shop b/c most of them have a previouse conviction. So long as people ignore the fact that in order for laws to be effective they must be enforced....the "gun" will be blamed before the lack of responsible governing and a functional justice system is blamed.

    I don't know what mechanism would make a gun, car, knife, or can of drano "irresponsible and stupid -proof"....cement? The nation would be far better off funding research for such a mechanism to be installed in every seat in congress.
    Faceman likes this.
         
        08-22-2012, 08:15 PM
      #33
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
    Sorry for the ignorant question, but what ARE "recreational" drugs? Heroin and such or something else? I've only heard the term "street drugs".

    Both - alcohol and (street) drugs - are addictive and break lots of lives (kids as well as adults). I don't think one should underestimate either. Also from what I know (personal experience with some friends) it's very hard (if possible) to break the addiction.
    Cigarettes
    Alcohol
    Legally prescribed Narcotics

    Many consider Marijuana as a recreational drug, thus so many push for legalization.

    I am sure there are a few that consider things like LSD, Ecstasy and similar Designer Drugs, etc as recreational, maybe even prescription narcotics.

    Anything harder than that like Cocaine, Heroin, Crank, Meth, etc. I would not think anyone would ever consider those recreational, but you cannot tell they way some people think.

    .
         
        08-22-2012, 08:18 PM
      #34
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
    Sorry for the ignorant question, but what ARE "recreational" drugs? Heroin and such or something else? I've only heard the term "street drugs".

    Both - alcohol and (street) drugs - are addictive and break lots of lives (kids as well as adults). I don't think one should underestimate either. Also from what I know (personal experience with some friends) it's very hard (if possible) to break the addiction.
    For some reason your post made me smile. B/c a I had to think about it although one hears it all the time and assumes they know what it means. I thought it is "reacreational use", but maybe it is "rec drugs".

    B/c most all perscription drugs and alcohol make me ill, some to the extremes, I have a built in "firewall" to "drug" addictions. But, I was once addicted to cigarettes, and I am here to tell ya, an addiction is pure evil and he** to break.
         
        08-22-2012, 08:22 PM
      #35
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
    Sorry for the ignorant question, but what ARE "recreational" drugs? Heroin and such or something else? I've only heard the term "street drugs".

    Both - alcohol and (street) drugs - are addictive and break lots of lives (kids as well as adults). I don't think one should underestimate either. Also from what I know (personal experience with some friends) it's very hard (if possible) to break the addiction.
    Without trying to be snide, just saying it like it is, "recreational drugs" is a term coined by liberals to try and justify the use of pot. That is not to say all liberal use pot or support legalizing it, because all of them don't. They even incorporate caffeine into the term to try to lessen the rammification of pot, which is truly mind and judgment altering, whereas caffeine is simply a mild stimulant. I smoked pot 45 years ago in college, and know very well what its affects are - it is not a simple stimulant. It is a drug, and impairs one's judgment, coordination, and ability to think and function normally. While I don't know that anyone actually gets addicted to pot, it impairs one nonetheless. Pot is not physically addicting to my knowledge, however can be mentally addicting as I'm sure db can tell you, because just like food or anything else that provides comfort or mental contentment it can be addicting...
         
        08-22-2012, 08:28 PM
      #36
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lockwood    
    As mentioned in other posts, lack of respect is a huge issue and yes it is.
    But if one is too stupid (sorry ignorant) or unable (for reasons not having to do with intelligence) to pass a drivers test, well that really affects their ability to work, get the things they needs and function in our world.
    I know many will say that people (in the US anyway) have the right to own guns and defend themselves, but being able to support oneself and function is of really high importance too, but guess what…. You no pass test you no get DL.
    Why should guns be so different?
    Because in the United States, the right to bear arms is a Constitutional right. Driving is not...
         
        08-22-2012, 08:32 PM
      #37
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Missy May    
    I just have to say, it is the per capita rate that matters, not the number. While more people might be murdered today, I honestly don't know if the percentage is higher since the "beginning". I have no proof either, but I tend to think so.

    While people are required to obtain a license to legally operate a car, the requirement does not prevent them from operating one w/o a license. It also doesn't prevent them from driving while under the influence of drugs including alcohol.
    No it doesn't, but I was mostly speaking within the confines of laws and rules.
    And, they do it all the time. I do not want to impose laws such that no civilian can drive in order to ensure only licensed drivers do.

    There is virtually no gun that is legally sold and manufactured in the US that does not include a safety. If not, there are "safety accessories" to lock it out. A revolver has safety built into the design.
    I know .
    Despite my words, I wasn't speaking of the device or instrument itself but of the rules or laws surround the objects like so many other "unsafe" activities or items out there.
    Vehicles safety? Safety was not a concern until tens of thousands of people died.
    Right... cause and effect.
    Now car safety testing is a costly "science". The concept of impact and momentum were worked out long before cars were common. In otherwords, it was not ignorance, it was money. Seat belts became mandatory at the behest of insurance companies, not car companies.

    The guard rail thing - ditto. Installation of guard rails and other safety measures is also a matter of blood and money. If enough people die...they will build one.
    Right again. I think enough people have died and enough tragedies have occured whether the gun was legally owned or not.
    In many cases, it does not matter how "evident" the risk is or was before they took action.

    I have absolutely no problem with specifications - such as a gun (including its safety mechanism) must meet or exceed x, y or z specification. Of course, neither do most gun manufactures...and they advertise it. I have a problem w people looking for ways to get money to study something this far out in left field. If one wanted to actually contribute to solving the problem, they would start w something like - what are the penalties and how often and to what degree are they enforced for illegal sale and purchase of weapons?
    There are plenty of people who own guns legally that shouldn't or have done plenty of harm **cough cough-irresponsiblehunters.... cough**

    And, how effective is it? This is obviouse. People that intend to use a gun to commit a crime do not ordinarily purchase guns at the local gun shop b/c most of them have a previouse conviction.
    True, but they don't account for all the problems.
    So long as people ignore the fact that in order for laws to be effective they must be enforced....the "gun" will be blamed before the lack of responsible governing and a functional justice system is blamed.

    I don't know what mechanism would make a gun, car, knife, or can of drano "irresponsible and stupid -proof"....cement? The nation would be far better off funding research for such a mechanism to be installed in every seat in congress. LOL
    Replies in bold... again.
         
        08-22-2012, 08:35 PM
      #38
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Faceman    
    .... I have full confidence that you will come to your senses one day...
    Ha! I'm pretty set in my ways.
    Pretty sure you will come to the light long before I embrace the dark side.
         
        08-22-2012, 08:41 PM
      #39
    Showing
    Lol! Thank you for explaining, folks! (I guess I'm addicted too per FM - I drink coffee and tea (with coffein) on daily basis ).

    As far as I know marijuana is not addictive, but I'm not an expert in any way. I don't think cigarettes impairs anything, but pots definitely do from what I've seen (there were several people in barn I used to go while back smoking them).
         
        08-22-2012, 08:54 PM
      #40
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Faceman    
    Because in the United States, the right to bear arms is a Constitutional right. Driving is not...
    Thanks for the lesson. FYI, there weren't cars back then in case you forgot what it was like.

    Seriously though, times have changed.
    Our world is so much different than it was when the constitution was put together and yet we are still able to make so many great strides in other areas of rights, liberties, and safety.

    Public transport is great IF you live in an area where it is available. Not here and not in many many rural areas. But folks still have to get to work to make money to live, buy life sustaining groceries, and keep a roof over their head. Back then people grew or barted for such things and were able to build their own homes.
    Lets not forget paying taxes either.
    Only a handful of people can live money free and off grid now a days.
         

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