How to help a friend with drug addiction/withdrawals? - Page 3
 
 

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How to help a friend with drug addiction/withdrawals?

This is a discussion on How to help a friend with drug addiction/withdrawals? within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category

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        02-14-2014, 01:42 AM
      #21
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ls6firebird    
    I didn't mean to come across as being angry. Im not at all angry about what I had to deal with growing up. Its made me who I am. My faith and everything I believe in is so much stronger because of what I went through. That's what really helped me understand forgiveness. Just as you said, I've forgiven what I was put through and the peace I've gotten from that has made clear that theres a reason I was put through that. I've been through a lot even after growing up and being out on my own, so my childhood toughened me up to handle things later in life.

    The anger I feel is when I see other people's life affected by someone's decision to make poor decisions. Bad things happen and its the good people left wondering "what if" or "I should have done this or that" and maybe whatever happened wouldn't have. Seeing the things I've seen, it tears me up seeing people left feeling guilty or responsible, when the one who should feel those things, don't. And when they do, they just do more drugs to bury the feelings.

    I don't have a problem talking about it. I just don't go into a lot of detail because I feel like it just comes off as a "poor me" story. But I feel if I share the just of it enough, maybe it will help somebody in the op's situation.
    I understand your post and I am glad that your past is not controling your life.
    I still say you are a strong person and a compassionate one.
    I am glad you are in a safe place emotionally.

    OP this argument he had with his ex sounds very manipulative to me.
    As a therapist IMPO he might be trying to endear himself to you.
    Remember someone has to pay for the drugs and addicts are not known to be very generous.
    I hope and pray you are correct but handle him with caution.
    His addiction will control his thoughts and actions. Keep that in mind.
    In my 30 years as a therapist I have only known a handful of people that beat their addictions without professional help or a 12 step program. Most of those I would classify as users not addicts. Shalom
         
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        02-14-2014, 11:33 PM
      #22
    Weanling
    As a man that came out of meth addiction I know first hand if your not quitting for yourself it's never going to work. Someone post called it a disease it's not it's it's just a choice we make although a bad one I or no one catches drug addiction. He will have to make the choice all you can do is be there for him through the good and the bad. I myself only was able to quit after turning my life over to an almighty GOD JESUS CHRIST without Him it was never possible
         
        02-15-2014, 12:15 AM
      #23
    Trained
    No, it's not just a choice. Not at all. It's a disease and it does require you to make a choice, yes, but to call it "just a choice" trivializes it. You don't catch all diseases, some you are born with and some you are exposed to and "catch." You most definitely can catch drug addiction if you are predisposed through genetic or emotional issues.

    I am glad you found your path to a clean life. That is a truly wonderful thing.
    dbarabians likes this.
         
        02-15-2014, 02:21 AM
      #24
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jackboy    
    As a man that came out of meth addiction I know first hand if your not quitting for yourself it's never going to work. Someone post called it a disease it's not it's it's just a choice we make although a bad one I or no one catches drug addiction. He will have to make the choice all you can do is be there for him through the good and the bad. I myself only was able to quit after turning my life over to an almighty GOD JESUS CHRIST without Him it was never possible
    Jackboy addiction is a disease it is life threatening and it is treatable.
    Addicts and alcoholics are not able to control their desires or actions when using.
    I am glad you found a way to be clean and sober.
    Not every one finds their path to sobriety in religion. Shalom
         
        02-15-2014, 02:43 PM
      #25
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jackboy    
    As a man that came out of meth addiction I know first hand if your not quitting for yourself it's never going to work. Someone post called it a disease it's not it's it's just a choice we make although a bad one I or no one catches drug addiction. He will have to make the choice all you can do is be there for him through the good and the bad. I myself only was able to quit after turning my life over to an almighty GOD JESUS CHRIST without Him it was never possible
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MN Tigerstripes    
    No, it's not just a choice. Not at all. It's a disease and it does require you to make a choice, yes, but to call it "just a choice" trivializes it. You don't catch all diseases, some you are born with and some you are exposed to and "catch." You most definitely can catch drug addiction if you are predisposed through genetic or emotional issues.

    I am glad you found your path to a clean life. That is a truly wonderful thing.
    this has me thinking. I think its fairly accurate to call it a disease, but I think the word disease is used as more of an excuse or justification for the bad choices addicts have made. And to me that enables an addict even more. Its obviously been mentioned several times already that an addict has to want to quit for themselves or its not going to work. Another big thing is the person needs to take responsibility and step up to realize they've messed up and drug others down. The way people use the word disease to almost justify addicts decision doesn't seem to help in my opinion. But never personally known someone beat a drug addiction, so I may be wrong. I think jack is a great example of that. He stepped up and took responsibility for what he did. I get so sick of hearing people justify an addict because "they've had a hard life" or "they've been really overwhelmed" or whatever. Just because somebody has had a rough or unfair life, doesn't give them the right to make poor choices that affect others.

    Definitely something im going to think about today tho
         
        02-15-2014, 07:43 PM
      #26
    Trained
    That is not at all what I mean when I call it a disease, it doesn't excuse their behavior in the slightest, nor does it justify their behaviors.

    It explains why it is so difficult for them to make good choices. The problem an addict has is not so much with a particular substance it's with the addictive tendencies (disease). Nine times out of ten, you take one substance away they will become addicted to something else chemical or even non-chemical. You have to address the disease, not just the symptom.

    Add in the fact that many addicts start using when they are very young, when their brains are still developing. They don't follow a "normal" developmental path in the slightest, oftentimes their brain/behavior is extremely stunted and they literally have to "be their own parent" when they sober up and finish growing up the rest of the way. Not to mention that they oftentimes made the "decision" to use when they were near babies in terms of understanding actual consequences and often suffer from other mental illnesses. It's no more simply a choice to sober up than it is a choice for a person suffer from severe depression to "just be happy."

    There are a lot of factors that go into a addiction, none of which excuses or justifies what they do in the throes of their disease. However, understanding these factors enable us to understand why they are doing what they are doing in hopes of actually helping them sober up and stay sober. If it was as simple and as easy as a choice there wouldn't be very many addicts out there at all, you'd only have to haul them in, let them dry out for a week or so and 95% of them would make the choice to be sober for the rest of their life. The life of an addict is miserable.

    Anyways, I could go on about this all day, I have a lot of experience with addicts and their issues.
    dbarabians likes this.
         
        02-15-2014, 08:07 PM
      #27
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MN Tigerstripes    
    That is not at all what I mean when I call it a disease, it doesn't excuse their behavior in the slightest, nor does it justify their behaviors.

    It explains why it is so difficult for them to make good choices. The problem an addict has is not so much with a particular substance it's with the addictive tendencies (disease). Nine times out of ten, you take one substance away they will become addicted to something else chemical or even non-chemical. You have to address the disease, not just the symptom.

    Add in the fact that many addicts start using when they are very young, when their brains are still developing. They don't follow a "normal" developmental path in the slightest, oftentimes their brain/behavior is extremely stunted and they literally have to "be their own parent" when they sober up and finish growing up the rest of the way. Not to mention that they oftentimes made the "decision" to use when they were near babies in terms of understanding actual consequences and often suffer from other mental illnesses. It's no more simply a choice to sober up than it is a choice for a person suffer from severe depression to "just be happy."

    There are a lot of factors that go into a addiction, none of which excuses or justifies what they do in the throes of their disease. However, understanding these factors enable us to understand why they are doing what they are doing in hopes of actually helping them sober up and stay sober. If it was as simple and as easy as a choice there wouldn't be very many addicts out there at all, you'd only have to haul them in, let them dry out for a week or so and 95% of them would make the choice to be sober for the rest of their life. The life of an addict is miserable.

    Anyways, I could go on about this all day, I have a lot of experience with addicts and their issues.
    i didn't mean you called it a disease as an excuse. I don't disagree with ya. I just saw good points from both arguments and it really made me think. Im probly a little on the insensitive side from growing up with meth head parents.
         
        02-15-2014, 08:36 PM
      #28
    Trained
    I get it, lots of people do use the term as an excuse, which is wrong and nothing excuses what they do while they are using.

    Believe me, there are things my sister (meth and alcohol primarily, but really anything she could get her hands on) has done that there are no excuse or justification for and there never will be. She will have to face the music from her eldest daughter someday for sure and maybe her younger two as well. Even if this time she stays sober. She didn't choose to get help either really, it was forced on her as her only way to get her children back. Thankfully her opposing social worker listened to me when I explained her emotional issues and backstory and fought to get her in a treatment center that actually addressed the mental issues behind the addiction. For the first time in far too long I have hope that she will make it this time. It's been sixteen years of hell and the last nine even worse because of the children involved. I cannot even begin to explain how stressful the last 6 months have been and how angry I have been with her at times.

    It's a terrible thing and I am sorry that you have had to deal with it from your parents. That is what I am fighting so hard to keep my nieces from living, which meant fighting to get their mother sober and the right kind of help.

    One thing that is true about the whole "choice" thing is that at some point they do have to either choose to get help or in the case of my sister choose to work with the program wholeheartedly even if they were forced in. But that's no different than anyone with a mental illness or even the flu or cancer or anorexia or any other disease. They have to make the choice to get help too. I think addicts have a harder time reaching that point because they can distract themselves too easily with drugs and they oftentimes surround themselves with other people who go along with the "it's everyone else" mindset.

    ETA - I think another problem with using the word "choice" so flippantly is that it is terrible for the other people in the addicts life. Trying to explain to my eldest niece that her mother's life had nothing to do with her would've been a lot harder if I believed that addiction is all a choice. It also would've been just soul crushing for her, being told that her mother freely chose drugs and the terrible life that went with it over her beautiful daughter. That would just make her sit there try and figure out where she was so lacking that her mother didn't choose her. When in reality it wouldn't matter if she were Wonder Woman in baby form, her mom is still an addict, someone who is sick and not capable of making a good decision except by chance or random flashes.
    dbarabians likes this.
         
        02-15-2014, 10:50 PM
      #29
    Foal
    That's rough. Its horrible when kids are involved. Its tough cause they pick up on whats going on more than most people realize.

    I don't know how social services never took me and my sister away. I guess living so far out in the country it probly just went unnoticed. And maybe back then (im 26), things just weren't as strict. I don't know. But I literally don't think I ever saw my dad sober. He'd be home one, maybe 2 days, then be gone for weeks at a time. My mom was always strung out on the couch. She wasn't quite as bad until my sister was a couple years old. Then she went downhill bad. I was 9 at that point. I had to take care of myself and my sister. If we were hungry, it was up to me to hope there was something around to make because my mom would be passed out on the couch vomiting on herself. Every once in a while she'd wake up screaming, throw things, and go on all kinds of psychotic rants. When I was 7 or 8 my dad "taught" me to mow on the tractor. Had an old farmall H with a narrow front and he told me to mow the steep pond bank. Of course the tractor rolled into the pond and luckily I got tossed far enough it didn't land on me in the pond. Dad yelled at me and told me I was worthless and everyone woulda been better off if the tractor woulda landed on me. He left, and was so high he backed into the barn, then drove right over the mailbox swerving out of the driveway. I could go on and on. Luckily when I was 16, people started catchin on and a guy down the road had a little guest house on his property that his dad lived in years before. He let me and my sister stay there from that point forward
         
        02-15-2014, 11:34 PM
      #30
    Weanling
    I don't mean to sound uncaring, but it is virtually impossible to quit anything (drugs, alcohol, smoking, abuse) until you personally want to. Everyone knows what they should do, but doing it is another matter. I'm not entirely certain that you can help someone who hasn't made a sincere effort to quit ( rehab).
    I in fact think that until that commitment is made, that you yourself.should be a bit careful. It is very easy to become an enabler without meaning to.
    He needs medical help, but only he can ask for it.

    All the best
    ls6firebird likes this.
         

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