I almost signed this petition - Page 6
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Life Beyond Horses > General Off Topic Discussion

I almost signed this petition

This is a discussion on I almost signed this petition within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category

    Like Tree27Likes

     
    LinkBack Thread Tools
        07-08-2012, 09:07 PM
      #51
    Super Moderator
    Fabulous post, Face. I think you painted it about right!! LOL!
         
    Sponsored Links
    Advertisement
     
        07-08-2012, 09:46 PM
      #52
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Allison Finch    
    Well said, Face.

    Add to that is the fact that the fracking process requires MILLIONS of gallons of water per drilling facility. NC has been very drought prone in recent years. We have come very close, numerous times, of running OUT of our surface water reserves. We simply do not have the resources to support this process.

    Also, this water is mixed with a slurry of dozens of chemicals, many of which are known to be extremely harmful. There are other chemicals that are unknown, because the industry managed to pass legislation that allowed them to hide the actual recipes of chemicals they were using. They don't WANT us to know what is mixed there.

    Very few companies have any way to recycle these fluids and they are sometimes simply dumped into a treatment system that is unable to render them safe. It is not unknown for there to be "accidental" massive spills of the chemicals into the environment that has killed livestock and poisoned surface water sources.

    Like I said, I am not against a safe way of extracting this gas. Some companies are doing a better job of it than others. I have natural gas in my home. I just want the REGULATIONS (you know, the ones the GOP is working so hard to overturn and undermine) That will protect this state.
    I agree with Allison.
    Fortunately, some landowners in my area were aware of the water issues surrounding fracking ahead of time. We had been hearing the horror stories of the chemical slurries, livestock deaths, wells being contaminated, people getting sick, and water sources ruined.
    Lots of discussions, town hall meetings, land owner groups, and other public meetings harped on this.

    However, the earthquakes were a new one for us. The ones in my area started off small.... 2.9s if I remember correctly, but each one got stronger and stronger. As they did, it become an issue that gained attention. Because they were getting stronger they were being felt and more people realized what was happening and grew angry and scared.

    Things just kept going though, and they kept getting stronger. The last one was a 4.2, which seemed significant to those who felt it, and finally scared enough people to jolt some action.
    Face, your explanations help to clarify things quite a bit, thank you.

    The rest is really just rhetorical questions…
    What irks me is why does it take getting a 4.2 earthquake for someone to finally scratch their head and say“Gee, maybe we should do something about this.”
    I know it is much more complicated than this, but most of the town/non-landowner folks in my area don’t understand that, and are mighty upset.

    If the knowledge and experience of earthquakes were already in place, and the data was showing the worsening trend, were the companies just pushing on hoping the earthquakes would just disappear?

    When does it go past the pollution component and become about not outright scaring the people? We don’t get earthquakes here. 4.2 may seem like child’s play to folks in CA, but not here, especially with all that came to light with the last one and the fear that worse ones may occur.
         
        07-08-2012, 10:12 PM
      #53
    Foal
    CBS Evening News with ... : Penn. Town blames contaminated water


    Mmm interesting!
         
        07-08-2012, 11:02 PM
      #54
    Trained
    Oy Vey we are all somewhat in agreement on this thread.
    Everyone note the time and the date, this might not happen again for a long while.
    Lockwood didn't I tell you that Faceman was not some rigidly rabid radical rightwinger republican. Shalom
    Allison Finch and Lockwood like this.
         
        07-08-2012, 11:05 PM
      #55
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lockwood    
    I agree with Allison.
    Fortunately, some landowners in my area were aware of the water issues surrounding fracking ahead of time. We had been hearing the horror stories of the chemical slurries, livestock deaths, wells being contaminated, people getting sick, and water sources ruined.
    Lots of discussions, town hall meetings, land owner groups, and other public meetings harped on this.

    However, the earthquakes were a new one for us. The ones in my area started off small.... 2.9s if I remember correctly, but each one got stronger and stronger. As they did, it become an issue that gained attention. Because they were getting stronger they were being felt and more people realized what was happening and grew angry and scared.

    Things just kept going though, and they kept getting stronger. The last one was a 4.2, which seemed significant to those who felt it, and finally scared enough people to jolt some action.
    Face, your explanations help to clarify things quite a bit, thank you.

    The rest is really just rhetorical questions…
    What irks me is why does it take getting a 4.2 earthquake for someone to finally scratch their head and say“Gee, maybe we should do something about this.”
    I know it is much more complicated than this, but most of the town/non-landowner folks in my area don’t understand that, and are mighty upset.

    If the knowledge and experience of earthquakes were already in place, and the data was showing the worsening trend, were the companies just pushing on hoping the earthquakes would just disappear?

    When does it go past the pollution component and become about not outright scaring the people? We don’t get earthquakes here. 4.2 may seem like child’s play to folks in CA, but not here, especially with all that came to light with the last one and the fear that worse ones may occur.
    I can't speak for the oil companies, but in general, earthquakes of that magnitude are considered inconsequential - even though they are scary to those not used to them. As I mentioned, it would be highly unlikely that fracking could induce a quake of a meaningful magnitude - unless it was right on the San Andreas or New Madrid. They are just teeny tiny fault quakes. The reason they are felt as much as they are is because they are relatively shallow. Remember, most areas have from scores to thousands of tiny earthquakes every year. My guess is the oil companies just don't consider them serious enough to be of concern. And just as a disclaimer, when I was in the oil business, I was never involved with fracking. I retired from that industry in 1986, and hydrocarbon extraction from shale was not yet economically feasible and was still in the R&D stage. The only fracking going on then was accidental fracking, in which case the oil or gas was generally lost.

    Many of us in Arkansas, when I was living in Arkansas, were relieved to see the fracking issues pop up in Pennsylvania when they started heavily working the shale play up there. Arkansas is off the radar screen with no current political clout, population, or meaningful press coverage, while an East Coast (to us) state is garnering more attention. Our complaints and concerns fell on deaf ears - I have heard far more press coverage eminating from Pennsylvania than I ever have from Arkansas, even though I lived there. Pennsylvania is of course used to having its environment raped from the coal industry strip mining days, but people are a lot more savvy now, and hopefully they won't put up with that type of bull poop these days.

    If you want to know the truth, most of the problems with oil companies today, from fracking to exhorbitant profits, arises from a lack of competition. The federal government - and this includes both Republican and Democrat administrations, was much too lenient in permitting mergers and acquisitions in the 80's and 90's. The number of oil companies of any consequence went from 25 or 30 down to a handful. That handful has a virtual monopoly, and I can tell you that price fixing is rampant, and profits are exhorbitant. Now don't get me wrong - I am a capitalist and believe companies should be able to make the most profit possible. However, there are certain industries that have the power to bring the nation to its knees...the oil and gas industry is one of them. Whether a conservative or liberal, it is only common sense that an industry that is so widespread and critical that it can unilaterally send an economy into a tailspin, needs to have some sort of limited regulation both for national security and nationwide economic reasons. It rubs my conservative fur the wrong way to say that, but there are situations where it is not only prudent but necessary to draw a line in the sand...
         
        07-08-2012, 11:46 PM
      #56
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by northwesten    
    CBS Evening News with ... : Penn. Town blames contaminated water

    CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley - Penn. Town blames contaminated water on fracking - YouTube

    Mmm interesting!
    While they don't all make National news, stories like this are popping up all over PA.
    Now there are wells in my town too.
    Missy May likes this.
         

    Quick Reply
    Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
    Message:
    Options

    Register Now

    In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

    Already have a Horse Forum account?
    Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

    New to the Horse Forum?
    Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

    User Name:
    Password
    Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
    Password:
    Confirm Password:
    Email Address
    Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
    Email Address:

    Log-in

    Human Verification

    In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


    Old Thread Warning
    This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    Signed up for a pen pal! MisssMarie General Off Topic Discussion 7 03-08-2012 06:56 PM
    we signed ownership papers, is she actually in my name? beverleyy Horse Law 31 11-10-2011 10:56 PM
    Hello, Have you signed the petition? Tanky Meet the Community 3 01-26-2009 04:12 PM
    Howdy! New guy signed up! rodeoclown Meet the Community 12 11-12-2008 02:43 PM
    Anyone signed up for Trackit? NorthernMama Horse Breeds 3 06-10-2008 09:03 AM



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:44 AM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0