I almost signed this petition - Page 6 - The Horse Forum

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post #51 of 56 Old 07-08-2012, 08:07 PM
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Fabulous post, Face. I think you painted it about right!! LOL!
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post #52 of 56 Old 07-08-2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Allison Finch View Post
Well said, Face.

Add to that is the fact that the fracking process requires MILLIONS of gallons of water per drilling facility. NC has been very drought prone in recent years. We have come very close, numerous times, of running OUT of our surface water reserves. We simply do not have the resources to support this process.

Also, this water is mixed with a slurry of dozens of chemicals, many of which are known to be extremely harmful. There are other chemicals that are unknown, because the industry managed to pass legislation that allowed them to hide the actual recipes of chemicals they were using. They don't WANT us to know what is mixed there.

Very few companies have any way to recycle these fluids and they are sometimes simply dumped into a treatment system that is unable to render them safe. It is not unknown for there to be "accidental" massive spills of the chemicals into the environment that has killed livestock and poisoned surface water sources.

Like I said, I am not against a safe way of extracting this gas. Some companies are doing a better job of it than others. I have natural gas in my home. I just want the REGULATIONS (you know, the ones the GOP is working so hard to overturn and undermine) That will protect this state.
I agree with Allison.
Fortunately, some landowners in my area were aware of the water issues surrounding fracking ahead of time. We had been hearing the horror stories of the chemical slurries, livestock deaths, wells being contaminated, people getting sick, and water sources ruined.
Lots of discussions, town hall meetings, land owner groups, and other public meetings harped on this.

However, the earthquakes were a new one for us. The ones in my area started off small.... 2.9s if I remember correctly, but each one got stronger and stronger. As they did, it become an issue that gained attention. Because they were getting stronger they were being felt and more people realized what was happening and grew angry and scared.

Things just kept going though, and they kept getting stronger. The last one was a 4.2, which seemed significant to those who felt it, and finally scared enough people to jolt some action.
Face, your explanations help to clarify things quite a bit, thank you.

The rest is really just rhetorical questions…
What irks me is why does it take getting a 4.2 earthquake for someone to finally scratch their head and say“Gee, maybe we should do something about this.”
I know it is much more complicated than this, but most of the town/non-landowner folks in my area don’t understand that, and are mighty upset.

If the knowledge and experience of earthquakes were already in place, and the data was showing the worsening trend, were the companies just pushing on hoping the earthquakes would just disappear?

When does it go past the pollution component and become about not outright scaring the people? We don’t get earthquakes here. 4.2 may seem like child’s play to folks in CA, but not here, especially with all that came to light with the last one and the fear that worse ones may occur.
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post #53 of 56 Old 07-08-2012, 09:12 PM
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post #54 of 56 Old 07-08-2012, 10:02 PM
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Oy Vey we are all somewhat in agreement on this thread.
Everyone note the time and the date, this might not happen again for a long while.
Lockwood didn't I tell you that Faceman was not some rigidly rabid radical rightwinger republican. Shalom
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post #55 of 56 Old 07-08-2012, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockwood View Post
I agree with Allison.
Fortunately, some landowners in my area were aware of the water issues surrounding fracking ahead of time. We had been hearing the horror stories of the chemical slurries, livestock deaths, wells being contaminated, people getting sick, and water sources ruined.
Lots of discussions, town hall meetings, land owner groups, and other public meetings harped on this.

However, the earthquakes were a new one for us. The ones in my area started off small.... 2.9s if I remember correctly, but each one got stronger and stronger. As they did, it become an issue that gained attention. Because they were getting stronger they were being felt and more people realized what was happening and grew angry and scared.

Things just kept going though, and they kept getting stronger. The last one was a 4.2, which seemed significant to those who felt it, and finally scared enough people to jolt some action.
Face, your explanations help to clarify things quite a bit, thank you.

The rest is really just rhetorical questions…
What irks me is why does it take getting a 4.2 earthquake for someone to finally scratch their head and say“Gee, maybe we should do something about this.”
I know it is much more complicated than this, but most of the town/non-landowner folks in my area don’t understand that, and are mighty upset.

If the knowledge and experience of earthquakes were already in place, and the data was showing the worsening trend, were the companies just pushing on hoping the earthquakes would just disappear?

When does it go past the pollution component and become about not outright scaring the people? We don’t get earthquakes here. 4.2 may seem like child’s play to folks in CA, but not here, especially with all that came to light with the last one and the fear that worse ones may occur.
I can't speak for the oil companies, but in general, earthquakes of that magnitude are considered inconsequential - even though they are scary to those not used to them. As I mentioned, it would be highly unlikely that fracking could induce a quake of a meaningful magnitude - unless it was right on the San Andreas or New Madrid. They are just teeny tiny fault quakes. The reason they are felt as much as they are is because they are relatively shallow. Remember, most areas have from scores to thousands of tiny earthquakes every year. My guess is the oil companies just don't consider them serious enough to be of concern. And just as a disclaimer, when I was in the oil business, I was never involved with fracking. I retired from that industry in 1986, and hydrocarbon extraction from shale was not yet economically feasible and was still in the R&D stage. The only fracking going on then was accidental fracking, in which case the oil or gas was generally lost.

Many of us in Arkansas, when I was living in Arkansas, were relieved to see the fracking issues pop up in Pennsylvania when they started heavily working the shale play up there. Arkansas is off the radar screen with no current political clout, population, or meaningful press coverage, while an East Coast (to us) state is garnering more attention. Our complaints and concerns fell on deaf ears - I have heard far more press coverage eminating from Pennsylvania than I ever have from Arkansas, even though I lived there. Pennsylvania is of course used to having its environment raped from the coal industry strip mining days, but people are a lot more savvy now, and hopefully they won't put up with that type of bull poop these days.

If you want to know the truth, most of the problems with oil companies today, from fracking to exhorbitant profits, arises from a lack of competition. The federal government - and this includes both Republican and Democrat administrations, was much too lenient in permitting mergers and acquisitions in the 80's and 90's. The number of oil companies of any consequence went from 25 or 30 down to a handful. That handful has a virtual monopoly, and I can tell you that price fixing is rampant, and profits are exhorbitant. Now don't get me wrong - I am a capitalist and believe companies should be able to make the most profit possible. However, there are certain industries that have the power to bring the nation to its knees...the oil and gas industry is one of them. Whether a conservative or liberal, it is only common sense that an industry that is so widespread and critical that it can unilaterally send an economy into a tailspin, needs to have some sort of limited regulation both for national security and nationwide economic reasons. It rubs my conservative fur the wrong way to say that, but there are situations where it is not only prudent but necessary to draw a line in the sand...
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post #56 of 56 Old 07-08-2012, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northwesten View Post
CBS Evening News with ... : Penn. Town blames contaminated water

CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley - Penn. Town blames contaminated water on fracking - YouTube

Mmm interesting!
While they don't all make National news, stories like this are popping up all over PA.
Now there are wells in my town too.
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