i need help with dog training. - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 51 Old 07-01-2011, 08:58 PM
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I agree with Doe, but have not seen anything as to the type of dog, it may have only been playing with your chickens. My Lab/Golden Retriever killed 2 of the neighbors chickens and one rooster playing with them. She was having fun and chasing them, she gets rough with my cat also, so I have been working her on leash with sitting and leave it exercises. I agree you have to give her a job and refocus her attention, it may be boredom that's causing it.

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post #12 of 51 Old 07-01-2011, 09:37 PM
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The dog makes no connection between killing a chicken and having a rotting one adorn his neck. Why not contain the pup when no one will be home? A pup gets bored and soon starts looking for something to do whether it's going after chickens or scattering the garbage all over the house.
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post #13 of 51 Old 07-01-2011, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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she is contained when no one is home, but occasionally she will dart out the door, or we will let her out and look away for a split second, i thought about the giving her a job but i don't really understand the concept, i did however think about setting her in a pen with the chickens and me, and when she focused on me and was calm with the chickens, reward her. and when she acted overly excited or aggressive, make her uncomfortable by fussing at her, as for her Breed she is a Australian Shepherd/Brittany Spaniel/ Blue Heeler mix.

Baby, Sparta, Carmen, Henry, Hooch, Mercedes, Butterscotch
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post #14 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 12:26 AM
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Please don't put a dead chicken around your dog's neck.

The only way to stop a dog from chasing chickens is proper training. You have a 3 second window of time to make a correction if you want the dog to associate that correction with the behavior they're doing.

That means that by the time you grab the dead chicken and tie it around your dog's neck, all you have is a dog with a dead animal attached to him wondering what the heck is wrong with his human. He's not making that connection.

Keep the dog on a leash outside. Don't leave him unsupervised around the chickens. Practice basic obedience around the chickens, and get control of the dog. It's simple as that but in a lot of cases it take a lot of work to get the kind of control your looking for. You need to plan on at least a couple weeks to a couple months of training and I'd suggest hiring a trainer to help you.
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post #15 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by lilkitty90 View Post
the only bad thing about that is she doesn't bother them alot when we are out there, it's just the off chances she is let out unsupervised, but i am definitely taking this into consideration.
Originally Posted by lilkitty90 View Post
she is contained when no one is home, but occasionally she will dart out the door, or we will let her out and look away for a split second,

I do not understand this at all. I live in a town, if my dogs were out loose and not in a secure area they would be hit by cars. If she is darting out of the door, then you need to train her to wait, or sit so this cannot happen. It is never acceptable for a dog to dart of the door, that is the fault of the human. While you are training the dog, train the humans to move the dog away, and block the door with their leg.

Your dog should not be with the chickens. She needs to be leashed when she goes out, so that she cannot kill them. If she is outdoor a lot, she needs his own fenced in area. If not, just take her out on a leash, sure it takes some human effort, but I do it all the time, I live in a town and do not have a fenced yard.

I would imagine if it were a cars tire the dog was going after you would stop this opportunity from happening, so do that now for the chickens (and other prey animals the dog might encounter).
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post #16 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
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well i don't live in town, i live way out in the country, i also live down a very long drive way, about half a mile or so. there is basically NO way she is going to get hit by a car. its the beauty of living in the country, as well as no leash law around here, and honestly when it's 4 am i expect to trust that i can let her out and stand at the door, and wait for her to come back like all the other dogs do, she's just hard headed and has a higher prey drive then my GSD i assume. our GSD literally slept with the chicks when they were little peeps. Claire is a house dog, and still a young one at that, about 8 months old tops. like i said definitely not my choice to get rid of her i would definitely like to work through it ,but my mom is expecting at least a good dent in training in a week. i think the best method like i said would be the leave it, but then she gets so excited what if she ignores me? we are also working on her recall command, she came from a VERY abusive home, and therefore has a hard time trusting. she listens to me best, but when she gets to excited sometimes she ignores commands, she's also learning stay, to wait at the door no matter if it's open and not come out unless told to, which she listens to 90% of the time. but as i said sometimes she gets to excited and darts out the door anyway, but she's still young and is definitely learning and knows a good bit for her age anyway, especially comming from a bad background.

and here are some pictures of her.

Baby, Sparta, Carmen, Henry, Hooch, Mercedes, Butterscotch
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post #17 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 09:34 AM
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Two things.

One - I get that you are in the country and you want to be able to let your dogs loose. I don't agree with it, but addressing your issue based on that point -

Firstly, even if the ultimate goal is for her to be trustworthy loose, right now she is NOT. She has shown you that. So the first commitment has to be to make sure, until she IS trained to leave the chickens alone, that she is not left with them unattended.

You have a dog with herding blood, she is just following her nature. Any dog is going to be inclined to have interest in chickens, but a herding dog in particular is going to have that overpowering chase instinct so when the chickens run, her instincts over-ride just about anything else.

And just to make things a little harder on the poor pup, her other side of the bloodlines (the brittany) is a very active hunting dog who also has a very strong chase instinct. A breed that generally has a reputation as cat killers, as well. So she is fighting against a lot of history there. All things to take into consideration, in the future, when selecting a dog you intend to have around your livestock.

Your very best bet in this case would to get involved with a herding trainer that can give you a couple sessions with your dog to help her learn some boundaries when it comes to livestock. Most stockdog trainers are willing to address issues like this pretty cheaply. And you may find you have a sport/hobby you enjoy with your dog, in the process. This is the best advice I can give you, but I suspect it will be out of the question.

Your option, if you are not willing to contact a trainer, is, as coffee suggested, keeping the dog on leash and working around the chickens - correct her (not beat her, or hit her, or kick her, or tie rotting carcasses to her) when her attention is fixated on the chickens and reward her attention on you.

None of this can be done in a weeks time. If keeping her leashed and supervised until you HAVE had time to properly train her (several weeks to months, as Coffee mentioned) is not possible for you, then I suggest finding a better suited home for her now is probably what you should go ahead and do.

Just as a final curiosity - your dog is a double dilute. Double dilutes are very, very often deaf. Are you absolutely, 100% certain she can hear?

Last edited by Indyhorse; 07-02-2011 at 09:40 AM.
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post #18 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by lilkitty90 View Post
and honestly when it's 4 am i expect to trust that i can let her out and stand at the door, and wait for her to come back like all the other dogs do,
Well you can't. She needs to be leashed until she has been trained. Just because you say 'I expect to be able to trust her' doesn't make it the case.
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post #19 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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yes AlexS i know that but for the last couple of months she HAS been trusted and she did fine, but then all of a sudden wham she starts attacking again, so now no one can take her out but me, and we are working on the stay command so she doesn't bolt when someone else opens the door, when i take her out she's on a leash, but apparently she doesn't like using the bathroom when your looking so i ahve to take her out twice as much, so that i don't have to worry about her using the bathroom in the house, because thats a whole other issue,

Indy, we thought that when we brought her home, so i've constantly kept up testing her hearing by making noises behind her or lightly whispering to her and she can hear luckily, things would be so much harder if she couldn't though. i don't kick or hit her nor do i intend to, it's just upsetting in my opinion to hit a dog, especially if they are running around, and you catch it and then hit it. because you've just taught it that being caught means it gets slapped.

we are working on taking her out and socializing her with the chickens, be it the chickens are VERY afraid of her and run when she's in sight, but we just tell her NO when she gets excited and so far it's working. but we'll see.

Baby, Sparta, Carmen, Henry, Hooch, Mercedes, Butterscotch
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post #20 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 04:56 PM
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Rotweilers were traditionally bred in Germany - in the region of the town of Rotweil - to herd cattle. They have an inbred ability to round up cattle, sheep and horses. Likewise in the days before artificial insemination, Staffies were bred to work together and herd bulls.
Sadly some breeders have encouraged the development of the aggression in the Rotweiler breed and have trained them to be aggressive guard dogs. It is the dog's body weight - usually in excess of 50 kilos- and their lack of fear of humans which attracts the guard dog breeders. Most British police forces prefer to train German Shepherds for police work.

However I owned a Springer Spaniel once who once ran off and killed ten prize chickens within a few minutes. Of course I was prosecuted since we lived in the countryside amongst farmers. I soon discovered that the dog, which could smell chickens from a distance could not be trusted off the lead near any type of bird. I had taken him to a dog trainer and he was positive that bird hunting was in the dogs genes and there was little that I could do to deter the trait. I managed to keep the dog out of trouble until one day he again escaped from my car, and disappeared through a hedge. Within10 minutes I was facing an irate farmer who claimed that my dog had killed some of his chickens. I was prosecuted and the judge ordered that my dog be put down.

My own belief is that when training horse or dog, we are bringing out traits of behaviour which are already inherent in the animal. In training we are actually training them to respond to instruction (by cue/aid) rather than teaching them some completely new behaviour. Asking an animal to do something is one problem - whereas demanding that a dog or horse does NOT do something is altogether more difficult. Whilst my own 9yo Rotweiler is very friendly towards humans - even strangers - I can't trust him within a hundred yards of a cat.

I'd like to think that negative enforcement works but we deter our horses and dogs from misbehaving by instantly chastising them - but if the owner is not present then the horse or dog will revert to an innate behaviour pattern.
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