i need help with dog training. - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 05:27 PM
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Barry, I am sorry you experienced that, the laws are so harsh in England (I am English but live in the US) a dog here can bite someone on your property and not ordered to put to sleep.

Lilkitty, so you have a second issue, you are house training too. I have no option but to take my dogs out on a leash, my one older female will not go if the grass is wet, but she needs to go out, so I end up taking her every 20 mins at times, until her need is dire enough to have to cope with the wet grass.
You need to be responsible and only take the dog out on a leash, I don't really care how much effort this takes, it needs to be done.
If the dog is going in the house, you need to get them on a routine, where you will take them out every hour, when they go outside, massive prize, massive treat. When you have this down, you can move to every 2 hours and so on.
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post #22 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
Green Broke
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oh AlexS she is potty Trained, but oddly enough my sister has a friend that comes over also named Claire, when human claire is here, dog claire pees in the house, no matter what! it's insane, and the moment human claire leaves, dog claire is perfectly fine again, human claire isn't mean or anything to dog claire and actually they are really good friends and cuddle on the couch, but dog claire peed on human claire's pillow twice, on a different pillow once and in my stepdad's chair, as well as on the floor, in only 2 days, and the moment the girl leaves the dog hasn't peed in the floor, but that was only the first time the girl came over, she was over the last 2 days and the dog has yet to pee in the house again, so i'm hoping it was just a freak accident, it was really weird though. i do tend to take her out every 2-3 hours during the day and not at night, but just whenever i get up in the morning, whethers thats 3 am or 7 am, she has never had a problem waiting until the girl came, but only while the girl was here, and then fine again after. though she did take longer to potty train then any of our other dogs, but i believe she's got it, i think like some horses that need it showed to them time and time again to understand i think she is the same way, with a thick skull and needs to be showed repetively what she is suposed to do. so i think that will also be put in use with teaching her about the chickens, just needs to be shown, ALOT, that chickens are friends, not food.

Baby, Sparta, Carmen, Henry, Hooch, Mercedes, Butterscotch
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post #23 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 06:11 PM
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i have been in the dogs world since i was in collage that makes me 8 yrs dalmatian breeder and 5 yrs doberman breeder.
i asked a friend who is a pretty good trainer about ur case and he said.
"you cant correct a dog something you havent teach him to do"
i would leave the electronic collar to an expert they can correct and ruin a dog in a simple mistake.
i pweronally love the chain collars used properly they are an awsome weapon.
here is a short video explaining how yo put it on a dog properly

ok now here what Ivan or I would do.
we would put some chickens in a cage or a pen somewhere the puppy can have use a leash or rope moderately long, get the pupy close to the chickens at the outside of the cage.
and wait observing evertime he stares, barks, move forward to the chiken, or anyreaction like that correct that means you will pull the collar and realease.
just pull one shock reallise and say no or shh! that will get your dog attention back to you and ignoreing the chickens thats the main reaction we want ignore the chickens.
if he barks growls or gets tensed next to the chcikens.
make him lay down next to them, sideways gran a chicken and show it to him form top carefully u have him controled (this is mostly in case he is agressive to them).
remmeber once he ignores the chickens re enforce the action with a Good Boy and pet him.
be sure he doesent have contact with the chickens without supervision.cos getting another chicken can ruin the progress.
then do it with a larger rope and loose chikens. until he is able to ve with out leash, rope or anything.
i hope this helps, he is really good
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post #24 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 07:59 PM
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The average person doesn't need to be using a choke collar. I'd rather they use a prong if a correction collar is needed, they are actually safer for the dog and require much less force for a proper correction.

That said, the chain collar in that video is too wide, if you're going to use one, make it thin regardless of the size of the dog. A wide, long chain collar is practically useless.

I will once again say that the OP would be better off finding a trainer to work with to resolve this problem. Doing it on your own without any training experience can at best take a long, long time and at worst get one of the chickens killed.

, just needs to be shown, ALOT, that chickens are friends, not food.

Agreed on the repetition point. However, chickens will never be friends, they will always be food or something to herd. The best you can hope for is to control that behavior, not remove it.
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post #25 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 08:25 PM
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i know the collar is to wide is just a good video to show how to put it on, i also agreethat if u have a proffesional trainer able to work with the dog thats ALWAYS the best option
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post #26 of 51 Old 07-02-2011, 09:37 PM
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It seems like alot of people have given you advice and it's up to you which one you chose at this point. But whichever one you pick just make sure it works for Claire. Every dog is different. But please, please, PLEASE, keep her on a leash as much as you can! It might be super annoying for you but it will keep Claire out of trouble and I'm sure your mom will be much happier because of it.
P.S Claire loves like the totally opposite of my dog Dewey (he is all black, with brown eyes)and they are about the same age and their personalltities are super similar. Freaky. Maybe my dog is your dog's evil half-brother or something!
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post #27 of 51 Old 07-03-2011, 04:29 AM
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For much of my adult life I have kept dogs. Mostly I have lived in a semi rural environment - out in the country on what is a fairly densely populated island - Britain. Of late I have drifted towards owning rescued dogs. My old dog Duke was a large old fashioned Staffordshire bull terrier - a breed often confused with pit bulls. My present dog is a rescued Rotweiler.

The first lesson to learn when working with certain breeds of dogs is that it is the owner's responsibility to protect the dog from other humans. Not all people love dogs. You should never put your dog Claire in danger by allowing her to mix with chickens - she might welll kill them. The act of killing will put her in danger of your mother - who sooner or later will either beat the dog or will call for it to be sent away.
In reality you have two training objectives - one to try to deter the dog from chasing chickens and the second to plead for clemency/forgiveness from your mother. Whilst the dog should be restrained - so should the chickens.

And then there is the delicate issue of which life is worth more - the dog's or the chicken's. (However I accept that owning chickens can be fun too).

Personally from what you have written, I'd be looking for a new home for the dog - it is too late to try to erase an inborn trait of behaviour.

In the UK most dog training is done in groups. Classes are formed with a mix of owners and dogs of all breeds. One objective is socialisation but some dogs seem to learn better by copying the behaviour of others. Success depends fundamentally upon the ability of the trainer, who in effect is training both dog and handler. Experienced long term dog owners can sometimes go it alone but the independent dog trainer is able to watch from afar the response of dog to owner.

We have out in the British countryside, dogs bred especially to follow the shoot. Their job is to collect fallen pheasants and partridges. Such dogs either have an ability by selective breeding or they don't. Sheep dogs either round up by nature or they don't. It is very difficult to instil the behaviour in a reluctant dog. Likewise the killing instinct in a dog is either there, (maybe dormant) or it isn't.

My 50 kilo Rottie would not aim to kill a cat, but in chasing it away, (often so as to protect the wild birds who feed in my garden}, he might collide with it and the impact might kill the smaller cat. That result would perhaps justify a plea for 'manslaughter' rather than 'murder'. Luckily for me and my Rottie, hereabouts cats are pretty agile.

Sadly your Claire has made an enemy in your mum. Maybe you could take her to adult training classes?
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post #28 of 51 Old 07-03-2011, 05:01 AM
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Coffee, Indy could you please your dog training experience level (I am familiar with it the OP is likely not). Thanks.
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post #29 of 51 Old 07-03-2011, 07:51 AM
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Alex. sure.

I breed, raise, and train herding Collies, and have trialed most of my dogs competitively, and have titled them. All but my two youngster dogs (I have 7 dogs total) also have their CGC and their TDI certification. My oldest dog (an Australian Shepherd, BTW) was also extensively competed in obedience, agility, and dabbled in flyball.

I also keep a flock of free range chickens that are loose on my property during daylight hours.

My dogs are NOT loose on the property. They are worth too much to me as beloved pets (as well as financially) to risk them being injured, shot by a farmer neighbor, hit by a car, or wander off to be bred by the neighbor's mastiff. I live in a very rural area too, but protection of my dogs is a priority to me.

It is one of my dog's job in particular to make sure the chickens are up in the coop at night and she knows how to herd them appropriately. All my herding dogs are actually started on chickens first, before moving up to larger livestock.

I agree with Barry in the sense that Claire's instinct to herd and chase is inborn, and is not going to go away. You can't expect her to just not do it. It's in her blood. That is why your better choice is to teach her to have an appropriate outlet for that behavior, and the guidance of a good instructor who knows herding dogs. It does not cost a lot to have just one particular issue addressed. And being in a very rural area works to your benefit in this case - good herding/stockdog instructors rarely ARE in cities, as most people frown on a herd of sheep in the back yard.

The upside is, you could not only have a dog not posing a danger to your chickens, but she could actually be a useful and valuable tool around the place if you bothered to put the effort into having her trained correctly. A good stockdog is incredibly helpful in so many ways.

That being said - I am of the personal opinion that no dog, EVER, should be allowed off leash, outside of a fenced yard - unless their recall is absolutely 100%.

Last edited by Indyhorse; 07-03-2011 at 07:59 AM.
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post #30 of 51 Old 07-03-2011, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
Green Broke
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well claire's Recall isn't 100%, but Sophie's our GSD's are, and since neither leave the yard, if you call sophie claire comes as well. what i find ost Odd is tht Claire wont try to Herd the horses, but will try to "herd" the chickens (IE chasing them) but Sophie doesn't bother the chickens, yet she tries to herd the horses which they dont like to we don't take her around the horses often, as we are afraid she will get nippy, i don't think my mom will go for a trainer, and i have to use my money for my 3 horses, so for now she's just always on a leash and we'll work on teaching her to behave around the chickens, and especially the leave it command,

Baby, Sparta, Carmen, Henry, Hooch, Mercedes, Butterscotch
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