Immigration? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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In my U.S. history class, my teacher asked us to write a short essay on immigration views in the U.S., specifically on today's views versus the the views in the early 1900s. We're comparing these views to the Sacco/Vanzetti case, which took place in 1927, in any way we'd like.

However, I do not feel that I am educated enough on this subject to form an opinion. My teacher said that I could compare these previous views to the views of the U.S. government, but I don't know a lot about that, either. I'm really not opinionated, and I honestly am not educated enough to have an opinion. So... what are your views on U.S. immigration? On immigration itself, on the policies therein, etc.?

Your personal opinions, the ideas backing them up, etc. would be much appreciated!


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post #2 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 07:00 AM
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the US government has no interest in adressing immigration. They are only interested in using excuses to create a police state by hiring more and more armed federal militias.
Seriously why do immigrants come here illegally ?
To get jobs,
Who's giving them the jobs ?

If the fed really wanted to stop illegal immigration, we dont need fences, or drones, or border patrol with machine guns and thermal scopes.
We need to lock up the Americans giving them jobs. Any business that hires them has all business assets confiscated and sold at auction. I am talking severe life changing penalties. And that includes the homeowners turning a blind eye to the cheap carpet installers and landscapers. They are to blame as well. No jobs no immigrants.
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post #3 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 07:12 AM
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Geeze Joe, where did the OP say anything about illegal immigration? Oh that's right, she didn't!

As far as 'taking jobs away from Americans', what a crock! The illegals do the jobs so many Americans think are beneath them. I say if you want to pick fruits and vegetables in the blazing hot sun for less than minimum wage, nobody's stopping you. You can also quit your day job and work fast food or do hard manual labor for a pittance. Go ahead, tell me again what GREAT opportunities the illegals are taking from Americans.

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post #4 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 07:55 AM
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Joe the US is NOT China. Our governments goal is not to control its population by a show of force, we do not live in a police state.
The federal government is solely responsible for immigration, Not the local municipalities, or states, The federal government is.
Immigrants has arrived on our shores long before we were independent and have added to the vitality this country enjoys.
Most undocumented workers that I know work 2-3 jobs and pay cash for cars, electronics, thereby adding greatly to our economy. Shalom
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post #5 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by dbarabians View Post
Most undocumented workers that I know work 2-3 jobs and pay cash for cars, electronics, thereby adding greatly to our economy. Shalom
Most bank robbers use the stolen money to purchase cars, electronics, etc.

Not sure I understand your point DB

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post #6 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 10:02 AM
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My husbands grandparents are illegal, and they lived the American dream. They started out doing manual labor and now own a construction company that a lot of the extended, legal family works for. I've hired illegals to do a few odd jobs and they are honest and hard working. When we lived in a downtown area, they'd give me a hand if I was trying to do.something difficult in the yard and they didn't ask for anything. They just thought helping was the right thing to do. Many people of my age and race can't even be bothered to hold a door open for someone. Besides, unless you're 100% native American, you're an immigrant, too.
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post #7 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 10:27 AM
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While I have rather strong views on illegal immigration, that is not the OP's question.

From what I can remember of history, immigrants from familiar countries - England & Germany - were always welcomed. There was a lot of open space to fill in. Immigrants from unfamiliar countries, or whose lack of skills meant they weren't very useful to society - the Irish, or Chinese - were hated. "No Irish Need Apply" signs were common, and the Chinese were barred from citizenship for many years.

Most countries have strictly controlled immigration and access to citizenship to A) improve their society's set of skills and B) keep their society fairly homogeneous. Mexico, for example, doesn't allow unlimited immigration across its southern border. Switzerland has strict laws governing citizenship. Japan despises outsiders. It has a very homogeneous population and it wants to keep it that way. And that isn't all bad. Commit a crime in Japan, and your neighbor will probably turn you in.

Contrary to public service announcements, those goals are not evil. Most countries have a population with shared values. If you allow unlimited immigration from other cultures, you lose that cultural unity. London is increasingly shaped by sharia law, not English common law. I think that is a big minus for England.

In the 60s, America made the decision - or the government did without consulting the populace - that immigration should focus on allowing the poor and unskilled to enter. We also turned a blind eye to uncontrolled immigration from Mexico. And there has been almost no focus on assimilation - allowing time for the newcomers to become a part of AMERICAN culture. My sister worked in Tucson trying to help Somali immigrants learn, for example, that a man doesn't have the right to beat up a woman who questions him.

I think that is a serious mistake, but no one in government cares. We've turned into a tribal form of government, with tribes that consist of artificial groups manipulating government for goodies or power. Instead of a melting pot, we've become a tray with separate spots for each type of food. That has destroyed the idea of a common American culture and American values, and thus America has become something I find hard to recognize. Political life in America is starting to resemble Afghanistan more than historic America. Political discussion has largely ceased being about IDEAS and become discussions of white men vs black women, or hispanics vs blacks vs asians vs whites vs whoever. We tend to mock Afghanistan for having warring tribes, but we seem to be following their example.
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post #8 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 10:40 AM
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For those with a legal interest, here is what Wiki has on the case mentioned by the OP:

Also see:

It is important to remember that Europe and America were having some serious problems caused by anarchists. There was at least one Sherlock Holmes story written with anarchists as the main evil, and a number of others that touched on it. It is also helpful to remember that the American legal system of the 1920s was a much more antagonistic style system than today. There was no such thing as 'discovery' and sharing information. It wasn't unheard of for both the defense and prosecutor to try to manufacture or hide evidence. In one of the first Perry Mason shows, Perry Mason fires extra bullets into a post to confuse the police and DA about where the real bullets fired during the murder came from. That wouldn't have been to odd a thing to happen in the 1920s or 30s.

A defendant's political beliefs can still influence how lawyers approach a trial. In the Ruby Ridge trial, IIRC, the daughter wasn't put on the stand by the defense for fear she would make racist statements that would bias the jury against her father.

"Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing...well, ignore it mostly."

Last edited by bsms; 02-02-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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post #9 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 11:38 AM
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I have a very strong view on illegal immigration as well, but it's not a question in a topic, so lets not start a discussion here whether you agree with it or disagree (if someone wants to starts a new thread on it you are very welcome to do so in "Politics").

I can't tell much about the immigration in the past, but I do know quite a bit about current system. At the moment you can immigrate through the relatives, through the job, or as a refugee/asylee. There is also so-called "green card lottery" (when you can submit your docs and win if you are very lucky), but I'm not sure if it's still running.

You can read more about different ways to immigrate here:

USCIS - Green Card

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post #10 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dbarabians View Post
The federal government is solely responsible for immigration, Not the local municipalities, or states, The federal government is.
So, if the Federal government can ignore a law, then why should the states feel obligated to comply with any federal law?

The rule of law is necessary for an orderly society. Enforce the laws or change them. Don't selectively chose to ignore the law.

If you don't like a law then change it. If you don't like a constitutional amendment then amend it.

There are tens of thousands of people who are willing to stand in line waiting to legitimately immigrate. Those who come here illegally should be rewarded and those who wish to come legitimately be denied?
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