Immigration? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 05:06 PM
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It used to be exciting when you met an immigrant. Regardless if they were here and hoping to become a citizen or just here for a short time for school or contract work. Those were the legal ones. The illegal ones were seen as criminals and shunned as such.


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Originally Posted by Speed Racer View Post
Geeze Joe, where did the OP say anything about illegal immigration? Oh that's right, she didn't!

As far as 'taking jobs away from Americans', what a crock! The illegals do the jobs so many Americans think are beneath them. I say if you want to pick fruits and vegetables in the blazing hot sun for less than minimum wage, nobody's stopping you. You can also quit your day job and work fast food or do hard manual labor for a pittance. Go ahead, tell me again what GREAT opportunities the illegals are taking from Americans.
Um, I will disagree based on the experience of two of my daughters and their college friends. Both like outdoor work and when I took an 11 month job back east, just so they could experience life there, they had a terrible time getting work because so many employers were used to hiring illegal immigrants. They pushed and persevered, got jobs, and did well. They and the illegal immigrants all made a bit better than minimum wage.

Then youngest daughter went to college in a midwestern state for two years. She applied for and got an agricultural job - after having to really beg. The boss hired her because he was curious to see if a western kid would really do the work. She did so well that he asked her to recruit other college kids for his summer work. He now uses American college kids and they recruit the next crew as they graduate. His immigrant crews were here on work visas and he saved money by hiring Americans because he didn't have to pay travel and bond insurance.

Fast food places don't hire illegal aliens like ag does. And ag work is so healthy. Maybe some Americans are lazy, but many give up when they are first rebuffed. Americans are up to hard work, and I wish more would chose those fields.
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post #12 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Racer View Post
As far as 'taking jobs away from Americans', what a crock! The illegals do the jobs so many Americans think are beneath them. I say if you want to pick fruits and vegetables in the blazing hot sun for less than minimum wage, nobody's stopping you. You can also quit your day job and work fast food or do hard manual labor for a pittance. Go ahead, tell me again what GREAT opportunities the illegals are taking from Americans.
We have 12 million Citizens out of work, some have had 2 years of Unemployment Benefits run out.

I know several people who have taken these kinds of jobs, problem is they have a hard time fitting in and following instruction as the Foreman and everyone else working there speak Spanish.

As far as the 1st sentence I highlighted, that is just talking points form people trying to justify letting illegals get away with breaking the law.


Back to the OP, America was founded by immigrants and at a time when America was young and building itself we needed all the talent and people we could attract, I am not opposed to attracting new Immigrants, but Today we are getting full and need to clamp down on Illegal Immigration, and also get rid of the Stupid Anchor Baby Law.

.
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post #13 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 07:15 PM
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Employers demand cheap labour. Undocumented workers are plentiful, cheap and do not require benefits. They also pay into Social Security and will never recieve one dime back.
We need immigration reform in this country that allows those that are already working and contributing to our economy the opprotunity to work legally without fear of deportation yet demands that they return to their native country.
My family has sponsored an individual and his wife. Both are now citizens and their children were born here. The family owns land and a business the children are either in college or have already graduated.
A son is serving in the US Army as an officer.
I personally know of more than a few undocumented workers that were given a fast track to citzenship after joining the Army.
Our immigrations laws are outdated and do not address the current needs of this country. Shalom
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post #14 of 78 Old 02-02-2013, 08:08 PM
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"Employers demand cheap labour."

Yes, but we shouldn't give it to them. My friend with a ranch hires guys from South America to herd sheep. He has to pay their travel and pay them a decent wage and provide health benefits. They come, work - and very few Americans want to work herding sheep - and then go back and visit their families.

I'd love to see that program expanded. But if employers can get away with hiring near slave labor, many will. We should not let them. And yes, that means requiring employers to check immigration status, and fining those who do not.

In the 1800s, we could afford open immigration. We cannot any more. There are very few jobs Americans won't do, although there are a lot of jobs Americans won't do for slave wages. Immigration policy should be determined by what advances the country, not by what makes someone feel good about themselves.

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post #15 of 78 Old 02-03-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarabians View Post
Employers demand cheap labour. Undocumented workers are plentiful, cheap and do not require benefits. They also pay into Social Security and will never recieve one dime back.
We need immigration reform in this country that allows those that are already working and contributing to our economy the opprotunity to work legally without fear of deportation yet demands that they return to their native country.
My family has sponsored an individual and his wife. Both are now citizens and their children were born here. The family owns land and a business the children are either in college or have already graduated.
A son is serving in the US Army as an officer.
I personally know of more than a few undocumented workers that were given a fast track to citzenship after joining the Army.
Our immigrations laws are outdated and do not address the current needs of this country. Shalom
Couple of counter points for you.

-Unskilled laborers enters the country unskilled and take unskilled positions. Who would get those jobs if they weren't already taken? Unskilled teens and college students. Both parties leverage that unskilled beginning into skills to better themselves down the road. We have to manage the rate unskilled immigrants enter the country to prevent what we have going on now. That is american youth having a hard time getting a job. There isn't any jobs americans wont do and is a big lie foisted off on the country.

-Paying into social security? I guess you don't pay to much attention to what is going on. Immigrants are not being denied social security or other government hand outs. They take out way more in benefits then they put in. Immagrate here legally at 65 and bang, you are on social security. Immagrate here at 25 with 6 kids and bang, your kids are in school. A K-12 education takes about 150k per kid in Oregon. In our state social services are going broke handing out all this money and so they keep wanting to jack up tax revenue to pay for it. The biggest users of social services are immigrants and we don't even know their immigration status because the state refuses to ask.

-I agree our immigration laws need a serious overhaul.

Now to the OP.

In the past our immigration policy has been pretty wide open, as said, we had a lot of space that needed filling. Now we need to control the rate at which immigration occurs. Why? We need to give our citizens first crack at opportunities and backfill what's left from outside the country. With fast growth there is a lot of opportunities for all, with slow growth there isn't enough to go around and growth has slowed. That's for skilled and unskilled workers.

We also can't afford to keep bringing in those that are close or already at retirement age and feeding them benefits. Again, there's only so much money available to dole out. We need those paying into the system, not those taking from the system.

Immigrants need to be brought in at a rate no faster than can be assimilated into our culture. When brought in to fast they don't assimilate at all but instead stay off to the side and create little "China, Mexico, Somalia, whatever" ethnic group they are. This creates divisiveness, they don't learn english, there is tension between groups and they follow the laws of their native country, not US law. This isn't good for anyone.
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post #16 of 78 Old 02-03-2013, 02:23 PM
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you want to immigrate to the U.S.
Follow the law/s that are now on the books.

Plan and simple. These laws worked for the mass
Majority of immigrates who came from countries across the Atlantic.
Why should countries south of the Rio Grande be any different.
(special).
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post #17 of 78 Old 02-03-2013, 02:53 PM
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Theodore Roosevelt on Immigration


Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an American – January 3, 1919
“In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, and American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding house; and we have room for but one soul[sic] loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”


. The text actually comes from a letter he wrote in 1919 just days before his death. If you would like to see the original document from the Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress, it can be viewed here.

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigration | The Clockwork Conservative

I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within. Douglas MacArthur
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post #18 of 78 Old 02-03-2013, 09:13 PM
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That letter was written at a time when Irish, Jewish, and Itallian immigrants were discriminated against on a national level.
It is also somewhat racist if you ask me and reflects the isolationist policies of the time. Thankfully we have progressed as a nation.
To those who think it was easy to immigrate in the past let us not forget the thousands of jews who were denied entry to this country and perished in the death camps of WW2. Simply because the quota for jews was already filled.
I am an American and proud of the fact. Yet I am also a citizen of Israel. My loyalties have not been tested and I hope that they never are. It would be decision I would not want to make. Shalom
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post #19 of 78 Old 02-03-2013, 09:38 PM
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I legally immigrated to the USA in 2005 and was granted a "Green Card" and permanent resident status. If you have any questions about the current immigration policy from someone who's been through it all, I would be happy to answer them for you through PM ;)
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post #20 of 78 Old 02-03-2013, 11:15 PM
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Don't know if this is relevant, but my wife & my two oldest kids are immigrants. It gave me a hatred for the INS, which was filled with incredibly stupid people. At one point, when my oldest daughter was then 5, some woman sat on the other side of her desk and suggested I had adopted her for use as a maid. I lost it. I sprang up, leaned over her desk, and shouted, "Come take a look at her F'n pigsty of a room!"

We filed hundreds of pages of documents. While stationed at Ft Hood, I was being required to go to Austin almost weekly, each time with a new piece of paper. Finally, I had in inspector say we had filed every possible paper and would not need any more. Sure enough, a few weeks later, I received another demand for a personal delivery of some paperwork. It was at the time of the World Trade Center bombings. I wrote back that I should have put a turban around their heads, stuck a bomb under their arms, and had them claim asylum on entry!

Apparently someone found my letter funny, and posted it on a bulletin board in the INS office. A week later, I got a phone call from the head of the Austin office, telling me that a court date had been set for my kids to become citizens.

Fast forward 20+ years. The oldest daughter, who couldn't clean her room to save her soul, joined the US Marine Corps and did a tour in Iraq. My son has done tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. And I still think badly of the INS.
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