Immigration? - Page 4

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        02-04-2013, 10:27 PM
    Green Broke
    Originally Posted by AlexS    
    What votes? Unless you are a citizen, you can't vote.
    Guess you missed where I said my state refuses to check immigration status for benefits, that goes for voting too. Matter of fact you can now register on line and we are a vote by mail state. No proof of ID is ever needed and no one will see you face to face either.

    Now is there any proof of illegals voting in Oregon? No but no one is looking either. Is the system ripe for voter fraud? Yes.
    bsms, goneriding and JeniTex like this.
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        02-05-2013, 01:09 AM
    The undocumented workers here in Texas contribute greatly to the economic strength this state has enjoyed while most of the country has suffered far worse in the last few years. In fact Texas has increased its surplus from 6 Billion to !0 billion. Why do you think the republicans here are not shouting from the top of their lungs to deport those here illegally? Because they are good for the economy.
    Undocumented workers pay cash for things US citizens buy with credit.
    In fact every major city in Texas has their own little mexico that has many business that cater to the community., They are thriving.
    I can take you to several areas in the DFW metroplex
    Undocumented workers pay taxes, pay into social security , which by the way they will never recieve, do not get unemployement or any federal or state assistance. Their children do that are born here but they just so happen to be US citizens .
    There has never been a case of an undocumented worker voting illegally. Voter fraud is very rare. Shalom
    Remali likes this.
        02-05-2013, 08:02 AM
    They aren't "undocumented workers". They are here illegally. They do not legally qualify for documents. I went thru the nightmare of getting documents and following the law for my wife and the two kids we adopted. My daughter-in-law has gone thru the legal process required to get documents - but then, they are from the Philippines. Filipinos and Filipinas don't have the 'right' to be "undocumented workers". That is just for Mexicans, or those from central America.

    Slavery might have been good for the economy, but that didn't make it right. Paying pee-poor wages and being able to abuse someone because they are afraid of the law isn't moral either. I'm not so desperate to eat fruit that I couldn't pay more to buy fruit picked legally.

    I'm also not thrilled with importing Mexican culture. Mexico is politically corrupt, and bringing in millions of Mexicans and not requiring assimilation means our culture becomes more like the corrupt political culture of Mexico. And it also is bringing in crime and violence, because a border that isn't controlled makes it simple to bring in drugs. Many of the areas I hiked in as a kid are now marked with warning signs, because the government makes no attempt to prevent armed drug runners from crossing thru. My son-in-law has come across drug and gun caches while riding a dirt bike. When I go hiking now, I carry at least one gun with me. Often two - one openly, and one concealed. That is a change that has come about because the border isn't controlled, and it isn't controlled because Democrats want to pander to tribal voting by Hispanics, and the GOP-E wants slave labor for big business.

    I see no morality in our current policies. We could easily allow employers to check on citizenship, and then drive out of business those who hire "undocumented workers". We could greatly expand the guest worker program. If that drives up the cost of apples, so be it. We could give ranchers on the border the right to defend themselves. But then, that would require us to be a serious country - one that would vote based on things like deficits or crime instead of tribal loyalties...

    BTW - "There has never been a case of an undocumented worker voting illegally."

    Given the total lack of enforcement, and how difficult the courts & feds have made it to CHECK on the citizenship of those who vote, how would anyone know?
    NdAppy and JeniTex like this.
        02-05-2013, 08:41 AM
    I recently volunteered at a non profit part time last year. I had to show 3 forms of ID. My Drivers license, retired Military ID, and social security card. The information was run against a national data base during my background check. Just to prove I was a US citizen. I had to apply just as if I was seeking employment.
    It is not so easy to overlook undocumented workers as it used to be. Shalom
        02-05-2013, 09:11 AM
    Green Broke
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    I recently volunteered at a non profit part time last year. I had to show 3 forms of ID. My Drivers license, retired Military ID, and social security card. The information was run against a national data base during my background check. Just to prove I was a US citizen. I had to apply just as if I was seeking employment.
    It is not so easy to overlook undocumented workers as it used to be. Shalom
    That's a state by state thing and because it's that way in Texas does not mean it is how other states are run. They are called sanctuary states like Oregon and California. Laws are on the book but directive from up high tells everyone to not enforce those laws.
    bsms likes this.
        02-05-2013, 09:44 AM
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    There has never been a case of an undocumented worker voting illegally. Voter fraud is very rare. Shalom
    db, with all due respect, you just say things off the top of your head without any investigation or knowledge.

    Voter fraud by illegal immigrants is common - just not normally prosecuted. If you want a "case" - here is one, and this is from the ICE website - not a conservative website...

    Illegal alien arrested, charged with voter fraud

    As to illegals contributing in Texas - no one said they don't contribute (as a group). So what? Murderers and rapists and child molestors pay taxes too. The net cost to this country of illegals is still billions of dollars a year. I am not sure what is so hard for you to grasp there.

    And, as I said, Texas has 1 million unemployed we all are paying for, and 1.6 million illegal alien workers. That is idiocy, and it is idiocy by any reasonable measure...
    JeniTex likes this.
        02-05-2013, 11:16 AM
    Green Broke
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    It is very hard to become a citizen of the US. We need to revamp our policies to expedite those that have the educations needed for our countries future.
    Gunslinger the federal government receives billions in taxes from those here without the proper documents.
    To deport the millions of undocumented workers would leave a severe shortage of labour and cost billions to round them up and deport them. Most are lawabiding hard working members of our communities. The economies of Texas and California as well as the other southwestern states would collapse. Shalom
    So, I'm sure most (insert favorite politically correct term) are great people and hard workers. I'm sure there would be consequences for deporting them as well. I'm not calling for deportation necessarily although that shouldn't be ruled out IMO.

    Tell me please, what's this got to do with the rule of law?

    Tell me why you should obey any law you don't like if the federal government doesn't have to.

    Why should the expectation be that you obey the law and the federal government not?

    Isn't this hypocrisy? Don't do as I do, do as I say do!

    We don't have to like the law, but the law needs to be obeyed and enforced until the legislature (not the president and not by executive order) changes them.
    RegalCharm likes this.
        02-05-2013, 12:05 PM
    I'm with the others that say we REALLY need to limit legal immigration right now.
    Again, 12+ million people out of work don't need competition. A federal deficit now around the "reported" 17 billion dollar mark is obviously something we need to be addressing FIRST, then backing it up with immigration reform.

    I have some experience with both types of immigration. A former employer ran a tremendously profitable business (a cheap jewelry supplier). He was from India. He helped other Indians come over... But he used them like indentured servants. Work for X amount of years, live in a one room apartment, toilet was right next to the bed, that he provided. He paid them a bit of money for food, some went to pay him back, and the rest was sent to India to both bring over a age appropriate child and support their family. The man was a tax genius, multi millionaire.

    Been to a major tourism area in the states? All of the malls, shops, whatevers are using the same tactics.
    Gas stations? They are all doing it. You will be hard pressed to find an American teen getting a summer job in these areas.

    Illegal Immigration. Funny how the media and Liberals keep spouting that American's won't do this "menial" labor... They need to come on out where I live! We do not have an Illegal population. We are completely rural. There are farm hands that live at the ranches, college kids, farm kids, and people making decent however seasonal labor wages. They are paying these people minimum wage and doing just fine. They harvest fruit crops, hay, corn, run cattle, log, you name it. If there is an area where labor is needed people WILL move there if they pay a decent wage, what the big farmers are avoiding, thus "not being able to hire Americans."

    I implore every American who doesn't agree with what's going on to please grow a garden, raise a few animals or go in with other people to purchase meat from a small local farmer, to become as self sustainable as possible. That is the only way we are going to make a difference.

    Buy local, avoid Chinese/Indian manufactured goods, do not support the atrocities and the systems that are seriously impacting our lives.
    JeniTex likes this.
        02-05-2013, 12:46 PM
    Super Moderator
    As someone else who is a green card holder - so a permanent legal resident - I can tell you that it is far from easy to get into this country. First off you need to have a job to come too and that means that the company has to prove they can't find anyone in the US who they believe to be as capable as you are.
    You have to go through a whole series of hoops to prove you are not a health or social risk
    If you break the law in any serious way you are booted out
    You can't come here and go straight onto benefits and a retired couple wouldnt be able to emigrate here and claim health or pension benefits as they wouldnt have paid into the US SS system
    The cost of getting Green cards and Visas was so high that we wouldnt have come here if the company my husband worked for hadnt insisted on it and paid for everything
    I would have thought that the Illegal Immigrant issue was totally different and not what the OP was asking about
        02-05-2013, 12:50 PM
    Are we still helping someone with a paper about the views of immigration today compared with 1900 ... ?
    bsms, jaydee and JeniTex like this.

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