Inmates Rights in Prison? - Page 5

       The Horse Forum > Life Beyond Horses > General Off Topic Discussion

Inmates Rights in Prison?

This is a discussion on Inmates Rights in Prison? within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category

    Like Tree122Likes

    LinkBack Thread Tools
        05-13-2012, 09:43 AM
    I have not said that being disadvantaged is a free ride to commit a crime.
    I am saying it plays a part in the outcome.
    Everyone is not going to access help. That I know as well as anyone.
    I have had many clients that were not successful in therapy. I can almost tell you which ones will be and those who won't.
    I am as frustrated as anyone when this occurs. Yet, it is my job to see that they are afforded the opprotunity to try.
    I have a PHD , that doesn't make me any smarter than anyone. I do have access to reports and studies on the criminal justice system. I use these to help me guide my clients that are excons. I talk to my clients Parole Officers, Judges and lawyers to ensure that they follow the terms of their sentence.
    I have recommended that parole be revoked in some cases. Because of lack of participation or sincerity.
    I am looking at this issue from one aspect perhaps. The mental health of the inmate is as important as the sentence if theya re to become self sufficeint.
    Thanks TexasGal by the way. Shalom
    texasgal likes this.
    Sponsored Links
        05-13-2012, 09:45 AM
    Faceman thanks for the vote of confidence my friend.
    I'm still laughing. Shalom
        05-13-2012, 12:19 PM
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    Faceman thanks for the vote of confidence my friend.
    I'm still laughing. Shalom
    Well, I consider you one of those rare rational liberals...of course you can probably say the same about conservatives...

    I find this statement interesting and true...
    I have had many clients that were not successful in therapy. I can almost tell you which ones will be and those who won't.
    When you have worked with as many people as I have, and probably you have, you get to be a pretty good judge of character. I read people extremely well - I'm one of those that is cursed with the ability to see behind the eyes and can tell what someone is thinking regardless of what they are saying. I also read body language well, although I am far from an expert in that department. It doesn't take long to mentally separate those you can help from those you can't. I've given just a ton of speeches, lectures, seminars and workshops, and you can even tell from the front of the room. I try not to overqualify people so I can give them all a fair shake, but you can tell when you are talking to a brick wall. I can probably count on one hand, or maybe two, the number of people I have misread in a first impression, but it is still important to give them all the opportunity just in case you are wrong.

    Just as a sidebar, I'm attaching a success story of a guy I worked with. He is an example of one of those that, when given the opportunity, puts forth the effort and reaches out and grabs the brass ring. Not only is Larry black in an area that still has racial tensions, but he is just a tad under 5 feet tall, so doesn't exactly fit the corporate mold. I had worked with him when I was at SBA, and he came to me when I retired from SBA and joined the bank. Larry had a small mom and pop janitorial service and wanted to bid on the janitorial contract for Pine Bluff Arsenal, which is a $5 million 5 year contract, renewable upon satisfactory performance and a follow-up bid. Larry neded to demonstrate a sufficient capital position to perform on the contract (which required a payroll of 35 employees), so needed a substantial revolving line of credit, but there was not a bank in town that would touch him for several reasons. Well, I did, schooled him on how to manage a line of credit, and provided him with a committment letter to include in his bid. Needless to say he got the contract, and has performed perfectly on his line of credit, as well as other loans I extended him.

    That is probably way too much information (although I tried to keep it as non technical as I could), and may be of no general interest, but he is an example of someone that was uneducated from a Delta region truck farm family, but he had the character to (reasonably) educate himself, work his butt off in a husband/wife business, and then go for the big break and have enough savvy to know which resource people to go to. He had all the cards stacked against him, but had the character and determination to overcome his adversities.

    I'm sure you have your success stories too, and you know as well as I those are what you work and hope for...

    :: All Seasons Carpet & Janitorial Svc. Inc.
        05-13-2012, 04:23 PM
    Faceman I like you even more now. Logical conservatives I can appreciate and admire.
    I want everyone to know that I have read each and every post.
    Except for one member I understand your post and believe that most have valid points.
    The Criminal Justice System needs to be reformed. I think we can all agree on that.
    I think if the lock them up and throw away the key is not working then we need to find other ways to reform inmates.
    Well adjusted and emotionally secure people do not go to prison for the most part. They see life differently than those who are not.
    Once they have committed a crime there is nothing we can do to prevent it. We can though direct our time and money trying to prevent future crimes they may commit.. Shalom
        05-13-2012, 06:27 PM
    I worked for the DOC for 23 years, with all custody levels from trustees to death row inmates, I can tell you from experience you don't want to take the TV's away, you don't want to take the weights away. Do inmates have it easier than the people on the streets, some do some don't, there are predators or prey in the prisons and very little in between. There are inmates and then there are convicts two different animals (pun intended). Most prisons just warehouse inmates, they offer little in they way of jobs, trades, and rehabilitation due to the massive amounts of budget cuts. There is a whole lot more to placing an inmate into a job assignment than you would think, things have to be considered, such as custody levels, gang status, education level, length of sentence, type of crime. Would you want a serial rapist working out on a chain gang type of job out in the public? Most would not, not only is it a safety concern it is also a liability to the state. The thing is you can offer high school education but you can't make them go, same with self help programs, and mental health counseling , you can't make most inmates take the meds they need to function except in rare cases. Alot of states don't have state run mental health hospitals any more so some of those people end up in the prison system. My job was to make sure the inmates stayed in for the time they were sentenced to, and to keep them and the community as safe as possible, not to judge them for the crime they committed or treat them any differently because of that crime. Force was met with force, people got shot, got killed, got raped, got beat up, got robbed. Some never came back, some came back several times, you'd ask they why and some would say "this is all I know", some couldn't give you an answer call it job security or what ever you want, but the bottom line is you can't save them all, they have to reach a point where they want to change for themselves for rehabilitation to work.
    dbarabians and redpony like this.
        05-13-2012, 07:03 PM
    "Reforming" criminals is a controversial topic, and there is much debate if they can truly be reformed, and if so which ones can be reformed. Obviously some can because they aren't hardened criminals...some committed crimes of passion, some just got caught doing something any of us might do, etc. But I think when most of us think in terms of criminal reform we think primarily of actual hardened criminals.

    Some people know that I am a certified fitness trainer and Mrs. Face and I are both former (natural) bodybuilders, and I sort of liken reforming a criminal to transforming an overweight unfit person into a fit and helathy one. The vast majority of people yoyo in weight and condition much as criminal and druggies are in and out of their undesireable lifestyles. To actually reform a person (or perhaps a better way to put it would be help them reform themselves), or to transform that fat, unhealthy, unfit person, you have to coerce them into an actual lifestyle change. Without that lifestyle change, people will return to being fat and out of shape and criminals will return to their old ways. It does no good to lose 50 pounds and get in shape only to put it back on in a few months, any more than it does any good to put a druggie through rehab only to have him relapse back into drug use. Without a lifestyle and attitude change to WANT to be fit or to WANT to lead a normal life, efforts to help are fruitless or temporary at best.

    I use that analogy mainly because it is easier for most people to identify with weight and fitness issues than with crime.

    Coercing someone into a lifestyle change or an attitude change is very difficult...anyone that thinks it is a snap is dead wrong. You are talking about changing a person's self image, goals and objectives, priorities, likes and dislikes - the whole shebang.

    By the way, db, although we disagree on some stuff concerning this issue, don't think I am unsympathetic to your positions. won't believe this, but my grandfather was a prison psychiatrist, who during his career worked at reformitories and later the federal bureau of prisons at Leavenworth and other locations. I was actually born in Leavenworth (the town - not the prison) as my grandfather had gotten my dad a job as a prison guard there after WWII when he came back and couldn't find work. If you google Dr. Manly B. Root, you will find he wrote several articles over the years about how to handle inmates with drug dependencies...although they are likely outdated now as they were written long ago - he retired in about 1962 if I remember correctly. Anyway, when I was young, he and I used to talk about such things...he was always the source of my intellectual conversations as my parents were uneducated and very simple folks - not that there is anything wrong with that, but they were so different than I was we didn't communicate well at all. And yes, my grandfather was a bleeding heart liberal...
    dbarabians likes this.
        05-13-2012, 07:23 PM
    Now my point of view is completely uneducated.

    I think that there are too many luxuaries awarded to inmates. There was a case a little while ago where the prison system paid possibly part of a prisoners gender reassignment surgery. I have heard through friends of friends of prisoners getting braces to straighten their teeth. These sorts of things to me seem to be luxuaries. Obviously if there is Necesarry medical treatment it must be done but I disagree with elective procedures.

    As for tv what's wrong with basic free to air like the rest of the population survive with.

    I don't think pornography should be provided but prisoners should have the option of purchasing it.

    Work and study programs need to rewarded with wages but those that choose to do nothing get nothing. Obviously the basics but no extras. There is always work that can be done heck teach em to knit and sell scarves beanies etc!

    I love the idea of low risk inmates working in the community fencing painting trash removal. Even cleanups after floods and other horrific events. Highly reformed prisoners almost due for relief could even be sent to schools to talk about making the wrong choices in life.

    I think an inmates experiences in prison need to reflect the effort he or she puts in to reforming. I think they need to work for their privileges like everyone else. I know I pay for my gym membership.

    Logically (and again this is only my opinion) that would better prepare them for life on the outside where you have to work for things. The work program would lead to higher employability.'

    I'm hoping this makes sense was all typed on my phone.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    DrumRunner and dbarabians like this.
        05-13-2012, 07:44 PM
    Green Broke
    Originally Posted by Prinella    

    There is always work that can be done heck teach em to knit and sell scarves beanies etc!
    I completely agree with your whole post but the above sentence is hilarious.
        05-13-2012, 08:08 PM
    Where are they going to get the money to pay the wages? That's a big problem for most states in this economy, some states offer "Good Time", which gives time off sentences for good behavior and some programs that are completed. Some jobs do have paychecks but here they few and far between.

    Have you ever seen what a knitting needle or crochet hook can do to somebody in the wrong hands, these are things that the average person doesn't understand, safety is the first priority. Weapons are a big problem, why would you want to give them to the inmates? It's amazing what they can make weapons out of.

    Most prisons don't allow pornography inside it cause more problems than it solves. And many prisons are in areas that don't have over the air TV they have to have cable, many prisons get discounts from the cable providers.
        05-13-2012, 08:20 PM
    Here is the inmate pay rate in NC....

    Pay Grade. There are three daily rates of pay for all incentive wage assignments unless the Secretary determines that the work assignment requires special skills or training. Upon approval of the Secretary, inmates working in job assignments requiring special skills or training may be paid up to $3.00 per day. The three rates are: $.40, $.70, and $1.00. All jobs within the Division of Prisons are classified by the Chief of Program Services at a pay grade consistent with skills required to perform job assignments. All inmates assigned to the Department of Transportation inmate labor contract and to the Community Work Program are compensated at a fixed rate of $.70 per day
    Posted via Mobile Device

    Quick Reply
    Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.

    Register Now

    In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

    Already have a Horse Forum account?
    Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

    New to the Horse Forum?
    Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

    User Name:
    Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
    Confirm Password:
    Email Address
    Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
    Email Address:


    Human Verification

    In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.

    Old Thread Warning
    This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    what are my rights? what can I do? moderncowgirl Horse Law 47 02-19-2012 04:20 PM
    The Prison Stable caseymyhorserocks Horse Stories and Poems 2 11-05-2011 05:08 PM
    My rights? caligirl70 Horse Law 22 07-25-2011 09:22 PM
    Where are the prison retraining programs, please? Star Freedom Horse Training 1 07-13-2010 06:54 AM
    Prison Break hotreddun Movies, Music, and TV 6 10-25-2008 10:58 AM

    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:17 PM.

    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0