Just for those that serve, not public servants - Page 2
 
 

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Just for those that serve, not public servants

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        05-22-2012, 02:58 PM
      #11
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Allison Finch    
    I WISH I had the same retirement as the military!! They have full retirement after 20 years of service. Pretty sweet. I work in law enforcement, which is pretty dang stressful, too. In NC, we have to work 30 years for a full retirement. You can't imagine the wear and tear this job does on you. The average lifespan, post LE retirement, is five years. FIVE years.

    I guess I should have gone the military or other federal route.
    Yeah, I don't know how cops can work for 30 years. I am not a fan of cops in general, but 30 years at that profession is too much. Being a federal cop is a better deal, but it is also not the same as working in one's community, which is both necessary and what a lot of cops want to do...
    Allison Finch likes this.
         
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        05-22-2012, 04:28 PM
      #12
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Faceman    
    True. The last really good friend the military (or the federal civil service) had was Reagan, and that is starting to be a long time ago. I could understand the Dems of course, but Bush was not very military friendly either when it came to pay and benefits. When I was in the military in Vietnam it was still for the most part slogging around the jungle shooting and hacking at the enemy - not terribly different than the middle ages. But today things are a lot different. Even low ranking soldiers are far more high tech and have to have more edspertise than we did. But the pay doesn't reflect that, nor does it reflect the supervisory/management expertise required (the pay has never really reflected that part of the job). Just as with the federal civil service there are some mundane jobs that are overpaid or paid at a similar level to th3e private sector, but when it comes to professional and technical jobs, neither the military nor the civil service pay anywhere close to the private sector. The stupid comparisons that are published are very annoying because they compare the "average" pay of private sector workers with the "average" pay of federal workers...but there is no comparison whatsoever. Much, if not most, of the private secotor works at Walmart, McDonalds, convenience sotores, etc. while most of the public sector is professional or technical.

    But the bottom line is both the military and civil service folks are the gtovernment's employees, so when it is time for cuts guess where they are made? Of course for the Dems, the objective is to pay the people that don't feel like working - not those that do work...
    I agree, in part, and disagree, in part. My main gripe with federal employees is the widespread practice that follows: say you hire on as a GS 5, the job never changes but you sit there for 8-9 years and maxed out in "steps". You can complain, as many do, and almost always get a raise in the way of "GS-6", and later G-7, etc.,. Now, if one didn't like the published pay of the job...then they could just find another....not "increase" the pay for the job forever more to the point is no longer commensurate. It gives the public plenty of job pay scales to complain about. Oh, and then there is the frequent practice of hiring people that "someone" determines has "experience equivalent" of a degree in the hard sciences with no more "experience equivalent" than a walmart checker....generally the "someone" is their buddy or their buddy's relative. Uh, okay. All of these practices could EASILY be arrested, instead it has become the "culture"....and it is more accurately called -abuse of the system. And, it is common and everywhere I have ever looked in the federal employee arena. I know a lot of hard working federal employees...and these types of practices do nothing for moral of the people with talent and integrity...i.e., the people you want and need.
         
        05-22-2012, 05:47 PM
      #13
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Missy May    
    I agree, in part, and disagree, in part. My main gripe with federal employees is the widespread practice that follows: say you hire on as a GS 5, the job never changes but you sit there for 8-9 years and maxed out in "steps". You can complain, as many do, and almost always get a raise in the way of "GS-6", and later G-7, etc.,. Now, if one didn't like the published pay of the job...then they could just find another....not "increase" the pay for the job forever more to the point is no longer commensurate. It gives the public plenty of job pay scales to complain about. Oh, and then there is the frequent practice of hiring people that "someone" determines has "experience equivalent" of a degree in the hard sciences with no more "experience equivalent" than a walmart checker....generally the "someone" is their buddy or their buddy's relative. Uh, okay. All of these practices could EASILY be arrested, instead it has become the "culture"....and it is more accurately called -abuse of the system. And, it is common and everywhere I have ever looked in the federal employee arena. I know a lot of hard working federal employees...and these types of practices do nothing for moral of the people with talent and integrity...i.e., the people you want and need.
    The civil service has extremely serioius issues, and as an overall picture is extremely inefficient. But not necessarily for the "problems" you cite.

    The biggest problem with the civil service is not being able to reward excellent employees and not being able to fire poor ones. As a result, the good employees leave for the private sector where they can make more money and be rewarded for their efforts, and the poor employees stay, becoming deadwood. By withholding colst of living raises and cutting benefits, as the government is now doing, nothing more is being accomplished than runnig off good employees. The poor performers aren't going anywhere because they are doing far better than they could do in the private sector - they might even have to work for a living there.

    Not being able to get rid of deadwood is a horrible problem. Mrs. Face had an absolutely worthless employee at the VA and it took her 6 months to fire him and 2 years worth of answering grievances and lawsuits for the whole thing to come to closure. This guy happened to be a homosexual, and if you are a homosexual, woman, or minority with the government there are far too many protections in place and far too much litigation...most federal managers as a matter of fact don't have the cahones or the intestinal fortitude to fire or discipline anyone that could be classified as a protected group.

    I guarantee you, if I had the power, I could trim the federal workforce (overall) by probably 20%, and increase the salaries of the remaining good employees to the level of the private sector and save the taxpayers a ton of money. Some agencies are ridiculously overstaffed with people sitting around on their butts and other agencies are severely understaffed. The whole thing is a royal mess. There are so many non performers at the government it is disgusting. That is one of the reasons I left government service - I just got fed up with the unnecessary levels of fat and non performers. The hard working dedicated people have to do not only their job but the jobs of the two lazy deadbeats next to them - that's what runs them off.

    I guess I'm an old fossil...I believe in a full day's work for a full day's pay - both from myself and those that work for me. Today you are lucky if you can get 4 hours work out of a lot of people - they are far too busy texting and playing on the net to actually do any work. Funny...those kind of people considered me the worst boss in the world, while the performers considered me the best...
    dbarabians likes this.
         
        05-22-2012, 07:27 PM
      #14
    Showing
    Going OT, but... Is that true that federal employee absolutely can't be fired doesn't matter how crappy he/she works?
         
        05-22-2012, 08:18 PM
      #15
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
    Going OT, but... Is that true that federal employee absolutely can't be fired doesn't matter how crappy he/she works?
    No, they can be fired. But it is a long and difficult process due to union and board protections, firings usually end up in protracted lawsuits, and the vast majority of federal managers would rather just keep a bad employee than go through the hassle..
         
        05-22-2012, 08:27 PM
      #16
    Trained
    I agree with you 100%, faceman. Its crazy and its not just a few bucks...its bazzillions! I would get rid of at least half. The fact they can get paid and nearly never fired is exactly the problem. If you pay someone 5 bucks an hour to do nothing, they are over-paid.

    And Kittan Val, imho, that is not completely true. Like faceman said...if they are some sort of "minority" or have some sort of "disability"- it seems near impossible to fire them.
         
        05-22-2012, 09:18 PM
      #17
    Green Broke
    I posted the pdf of the actual congressional retirement plan. Read what you like it is all right there.
         
        05-22-2012, 09:30 PM
      #18
    Trained
    Similar - having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical.

    Medical insurance - is insurance against the risk of incurring medical expenses among individuals. I.e, it is not a pension plan.

    Stand corrected statement - something some are unable to comprehend and not worth issueing.

    20 years - 15 more than 5.

    80% - 30% greater than 50%.
    Faceman likes this.
         
        05-22-2012, 10:16 PM
      #19
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe4d    
    I posted the pdf of the actual congressional retirement plan. Read what you like it is all right there.
    Makes no difference what their plan is...you are still wrong. As I said, their plan is NOT the same as all federal employees. Period. Next time you tell someone to check their facts, I suggest you do the same...
    kitten_Val likes this.
         
        05-23-2012, 05:59 AM
      #20
    Green Broke
    U no what I like to say???
    ITS A GOOD THING I don't SERVE FOR THE MONEY!

    But on a serious note....no we don't get the same pay or as good a pay as some....but we have a steady job, we get free medical, if you are e-5 or below (army) you get free housing and e-6 and up (e-4 and up for airforce and navy) you get BAH to pay for housing. You get free food at the dfac (or extra money for food if you don't have a dfac) and your not just going to get randomly laid off one day. If you get kicked out your probably either a. Medically discharged or b. You just arent military material.

    I was all for getting out at my 4 yr mark but I talk to my family back home and theirs just no jobs in the civilian world.


    So we get a few cuts in our pay...at least we have a roof over our heads, medical, and we get enough to help support our families....thats nothing to complain about.
         

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