PEACEFUL debate/response, anyone? Homosexual parents, heterosexual parents - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 54 Old 02-20-2013, 03:55 PM
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First, This is a "research article" done by a faith biased group... Notorious for not liking things like homosexuality and abortion. You can skew ANY research to look the way you want to, especially if your trying to publish it for a political reason, in this case knocking homosexuality.

Through the research I've done for school there are several advantages to raising a child in a homosexual house hold, including increased tolerance toward others.

They keep saying "married biological family"... really how many people have that now a days?

As for "deviating from the sexual norm".... maybe because sexuality wasn't swept under the rug like it is in most families. Homosexuality isn't a topic being discussed in households regularly, though it is just becoming more popular in the media. What about fathers telling little boys to "man up" or scolding them for crying. Teens that feel that their parents would disown them for being homosexual. Now how does THAT have an effect on kids who might feel like they want to "Deviate from the sexual norm".

Honestly, as a lesbian, this article infuriates me so much I can't continune to read at this point. My blood is boiling over the amount of utter crap this article is spewing.

What makes homosexuals any less qualified to raise children then heterosexual parents? God knows my heterosexual parents did a shoddy job and I came out pretty okay if I do say so myself!
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post #12 of 54 Old 02-20-2013, 04:11 PM
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I just wanted to pose some of these quotes right off their website, so you can see the kind of lens they are looking through

Re human euthanasia. How is suffering out the end of your days with a terrible disease, struggle for every breath, in agonizing pain and sitting in your own feces a "life worth living". I see it ALL THE TIME in the hospital. These people are doped up beyond belief to relive the pain and suffering from your body SHUTTING DOWN.
"Disabling diseases and injuries, including those for which there is a terminal diagnosis, are tragic. However, there is no such thing as a life not worth living. Every life holds promise, even if disadvantaged by developmental disability, injury, disease, or advanced aging."

Although abstinence is pretty ideal who in this day in age practices it? No one. Teens have sex. There are a small handful that don't. To me I'd rather make my kids "safe" by teaching them about sex then "ignorant" by saying don't do it.
"FRC supports healthy marriage and family formation education to youth in conjunction with abstinence until marriage education."

Their view on homosexuality.. I'm pretty sure I've been gay my whole life and "out" for about half of it. Besides bullying (from people like this) I don't see how homosexuality is harmful. Hasn't harmed me yet...
"Family Research Council believes that homosexual conduct is harmful to the persons who engage in it and to society at large, and can never be affirmed. It is by definition unnatural, and as such is associated with negative physical and psychological health effects".

Don't like abortion?... don't get one.
"Family Research Council believes that abortion, far from empowering women, is a destructive force in women's lives".
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post #13 of 54 Old 02-20-2013, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TerciopeladoCaballo View Post
I didn't know you wanted it. It's nice not to use sarcasm or be haughty, please :)

I did not put it first because I did not want anyone focusing on my opinion rather than the article.

I am an avid bioscience geek, so most of what I affirm is what I work out in the bio ethic department and personal experiences with particular people, and I am not a generalized thinker, I think in specifics first.

For me, I have found that the best household a child can grow up in is one with both his/her biological parents--- regardless of orientation. Even if the child is raised with a non-blood related relative, the child can still have a benefit if she/he lives close to her/his biological family. There is a kind of identity verification where one can relate to their surroundings on a biological level. When I look at animal behavior in front of me and the studies on that, I find almost all animals need to be raised with or at least see/smell/hear their own species/subspecies to independently meet their advanced needs, as you will find that all animals know how to perform a specific behavior such as the killing blow, predatory chasing, and the act of intercourse, but they need to direct these behaviors appropriately. I haven't seen one open case of humans hand-raising an animal without its species produce an adult animal that can fully function appropriately in its native habitat--- one important instance comes to mind with an African Gray parrot that refused to mate with others of its species in favor of courting his female owner. My own experience with animal's identity confusion is with a dove named "Digi", Digi was hand-raised, and refused to migrate or interact with his species, instead constantly courting a chicken hen.

I'm guessing you either have been snapped at too many times and have a bitter outlook/defense, Speed, or you are seeking to put people down rather than debate? I hope not, that isn't productive. Something prevents you from offering your own opinion with a calm attitude. I expect a snarky reply, then; prove that expectation wrong, if you will.

I totally see your point on animals need their own kind learn the "laws" of being that animal. But we are talking about humans being raised with humans, not by dogs or horses. Most animals are not raised by animals opposite genders and certain my not by two parents either. You can argue that boys won't learn boy things and girls won't learn girl things. But who says women aren't into sports? That men can't braid hair or pick out a dress? What exactly is it that people think kids are missing out on? Single parents raise kids of opposite ALL THE TIME with no help from the opposite sex. Should that be illegal too?
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post #14 of 54 Old 02-20-2013, 06:33 PM
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I agree with a lot of what SlideStop posted in her first post. To me, this article/study seemed like it was trying to make something out of nothing and was looking for differences to highlight. This first thing that caught my attention was that, when listing their summaries of past debates about this, they used the term "pro-family organizations". That implied, at least to me, that the person writing this article seems to believe that two parents of the same sex are not a family. Why are "family" and "gay" mutually exclusive to this author?

They made a big deal over the number of participants... I don't find their participant pool particularly impressive. Also, they say "Of these, 175 reported that their mother had a same-sex romantic relationship while they were growing up, and 73 said the same about their father." I don't think that a same-sex relationship while they were growing up is the same as a family who's mother and father have stayed together throughout the childhood. They could easily have gathered the information from some people who's mothers or fathers had a number of relationships, of which one or more were with someone of the same sex. In order for this study to accurately compare children of same-sex and opposite-sex parenting, I think they need to have the same levels of commitment for the parents. So not a same-sex relationship while growing up, but two moms or two dads that were together for the same duration of the child's life as opposite sex parents.

I would like to have seen the "outcome measures", instead of just hearing about some that seem to make the biggest impact. In terms of the aspects of the results about psychological things, such as depression, "negative impact" and "less safety and security", how much of that is a result of our culture? Isn't it likely that the culture of homophobia in our society contributed to these feelings about same-sex couples?

As a brief note about the section on the children's sexuality, I'm not surprised that there are more children of same-sex parents who have had same sex partners. This isn't because I think gay parents influence their children to be gay, I think it's because children who grow up in same sex households are more willing to consider the possibility of being gay and are more comfortable exploring their sexuality. It's not that having gay parents makes you gay, it's that having gay parents makes you more open.

All in all, this "study" made me angry. I felt as if the people running the study and writing the article did everything they could to make a point about gay parents being worse at raising children. However, I didn't find anything that stood out as fact in the article. And, the idea of science is not to do a study that "tops previous research", it's to gather data that adds to data that has already been gathered. Having the results of this study doesn't throw all past studies out the window.

Edited to add:
I just explored the website that posted this article a bit. It is rather shocking; just click on "homosexuality", read what they wrote and take a look at some of the article titles. These are clearly not unbiased people... how is anyone supposed to believe a study that was run by a group that clearly places themselves firmly on one side of the argument?
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Last edited by aliliz; 02-20-2013 at 06:43 PM.
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post #15 of 54 Old 02-20-2013, 06:41 PM
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I think that it's possible to create a scientific study on a topic such as this that "proves" pretty much any point of view you want to see. So I stick firmly to my own opinion that is formed by living in this world for 43 years and viewing family groups of all shapes and types, and meeting and mixing with people of all sexual persuasions.

I firmly believe that a child will grow up best in a loving and stable homelife (both emotionally and financially). Whether the adult(s) that run that home life are single, a couple, a collective, heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual is not of direct relevance to the happiness and well being of the child.

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post #16 of 54 Old 02-20-2013, 07:41 PM
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I did not finish reading the atricle.It clothed itself in the appearance of being "scientific" and "unbiased". HOwever, the more you read, the more the true agenda started being obvious. IT was working very hard to prove a number of biased steroetypes that I really don't agree with.

My oldest sister is gay. A more caring and loving person would be hard to find. ONe of my favorite adult students is gay and has been in an almost 15 year relationship with her partner (better than many heteros). She has produced a daught and a son within this partnership. These two kids are the most well adjusted, intelligent and open minded kids I know. They are a true delight to be around. NEither is being "indoctrinated" into any sexual identity and will be allowed to make the choices they see fit. BOth appear perfectly "normal".

Studies like this have an agenda. And. One I find very destructive.
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post #17 of 54 Old 02-20-2013, 07:48 PM
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I don't see any reason whatsoever why sexuality should affect someone's parenting skills.
Drug addicts? Yes.
Abusers? Yes.
Criminals? Yes.
Loving someone? No.

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post #18 of 54 Old 02-20-2013, 08:09 PM
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This is why I don't care to think too much about the sexual orientation of people, nor their political or religious stance.......

I sit on the fence and continue to be a great big sinner.....and I like it that way:)
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post #19 of 54 Old 02-20-2013, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Corporal View Post
NOT gonna get my opinion on this. DH is an atty, and he makes ppl pay for arguments.

Well, I'm Irish and as a nationality we tend to be pretty free with offering our opinions.

What do you care what that group thinks? They are entitled to their opinions just as are any religious group. You're not likely to change them. Their not likely to change you.

They aren't the "VOICE" of Christians in America, they are just a special interest group, raising money like any other. That's what special interest groups do. They all preach to their own choir and get money.

Just like a global warming group or a save the black tailed prairie dog bunch.
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post #20 of 54 Old 02-20-2013, 11:06 PM
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I really can't stand pseudo-scientific articles...articles with an AGENDA masquerading as science! is about discovery, you can't fall so in love with your hypothesis that you're willing to throw away all contrary evidence...

I don't understand why people are so hung up on "traditional family" anything. I especially loved the argument one of my Jr. High friends put on Facebook a few years ago..."You don't see animals in the zoo having homosexual relationships!" she said.

Um...actually....I responded and she didn't like my response too much lol. Research before you spew, please!

Gender roles, religious ZEALOTS (not religious PERSONS), and politics are all ways to control us, browbeat us into some sort of cohesive, mainstream role. Does it really hurt anyone if Mr. and Mr. Smith raise a baby? No.... Does it somehow corrupt YOUR (I use "your" loosely here) marriage/relationship/family values if this gay couple raise kids?, not unless you were on shaky moral grounds as it is, and in that case, it's all YOUR problem, and no one elses. People need to stop projecting and just be open minded, TOLERANT and caring of their neighbors.

After all, isn't being a good human being what almost all religions are about, deep down?

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