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Rescue Goat

This is a discussion on Rescue Goat within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category

     
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        07-20-2011, 09:09 AM
      #31
    Green Broke
    I'm not 19 i'm 18, I can NOT get medical attention to the goat without my mother's permission, she was at work and I couldn't contact her, I did what I could, by contact vets and asking them what I could do for her while we waited, I have no vehicle or a license to take the goat up there to seek medical attention myself. It was that the baby was to big, the head was to big to fit between the pelvic bones. Since you weren't there you don't really no. I don't like having my case jumped after just loosing an animal, we didn't know that she may be pregnant until after we had already bought her, the guy told us "hey yeah btw she may be pregnant" and yes it was neglectful that we brought her home without knowing but we were trying to save her from a worse outcome which often happens at the horse auction. How were we suposed to know the kid would be to big for the doe, and YES it was. And yes I contacted the person that sold me the goat and he blatenly said that the doe should never had been bred with the buck because he WAS to big. I don't see how I have a reputation of bringing something home without knowing what I am doing? The dog? Yes in my post I made that clear, but how do we know that the dog had a high prey drive. The guinea pig? Because my sister wanted it and we already knew how to care for it. And SR I do need mom and dad to make decisions when it is concerning their money, how about I spend your money without you knowing?
         
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        07-20-2011, 09:44 AM
      #32
    Banned
    Lilkitty, you can say it over and over and over again. It does not make it so.

    It is clear that Indy has pretty extensive goat knowledge. I get from her that breeding a small doe to a big buck does not make for a big baby that the mother can not birth. The baby develops to a size that the mother can give birth to even when the sizes of the parents are way off.

    Hopefully next time you are faced with a cute animal you will remember this poor goat and hold off on getting it until you have the capability to take care of it and the knowledge of the care it requires.
         
        07-20-2011, 10:57 AM
      #33
    Green Broke
    Just like in humans, goat pelvic bones can be too small.. Sometimesa c section can be needed.
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        07-20-2011, 11:00 AM
      #34
    Green Broke
    You know how to care for horses, and the fact that you rescue a horse, and it is pregnant and when you are faced with the birthing process, it can STILL DIE whether you have the experience or not, we know how to CARE for a goat, we have had family members in the past who cared for them and raised them but it's been awhile I have never cared for one but my mom has been around them, though she's never owned one, just because it has to be put down because of a birth that couldn't happen because A it was to big and B it was twisted around, the feet were in the wrong position, when the feet were finally in the right position the head was in the wrong position and made it impossible for it to be delivered, whether we knew how to care for the goat or not I firmly believe the outcome would have been the same, we did have people who have raised and delivered goats come out, and they said nothing could be done, as well. NOTHING could have been done to change the outcome, I had NO access to a car to take her anywhere and I had the proper people that indy suggested come out and NOTHING could be done, if you wanted to get your fanny out and see for yourself you should have. I don't see how it would have been different. Sure maybe someone else bought her they could have had a car, to get her somewhere, but is that really the point? Reprimand me for rescueing an animal yet fuss at people for not rescueing. Alright. Makes tons of sense.
         
        07-20-2011, 11:07 AM
      #35
    Banned
    I do not fuss at people who are not rescuing when they are not prepared to rescue.

    I personally would not 'rescue' a horse that I am not prepared to care for. Not being able to get a vet out when needed does equal not being prepared.

    If your mother knows about goats then I guess she would have known up front that the goat was pregnant, not just after the guy told you. She also would have known about taking proper care of it and you would not have had to post here asking basic care questions.


    All I am hoping for her is that you learn from this tragic mistake. Do not just sweep it under the rug as one of those things, like you do with everything else. Learn something. Please. You are legally an adult now. Please learn to take responsibility for your own actions.
         
        07-20-2011, 11:19 AM
      #36
    Green Broke
    Well yeah she knows, she's the one that went out and bought the proper grain and alfalfa hay, and minerals and was going back out for the wormers and such. I asked for my knowledge, not hers, I like to do my own learning and research and ask my own questions, she didn't know if she was pregnant or like indy said had just weaned off a baby, the guy told us that she may be pregnant after we bought her which tells us that she hadn't just weaned off a kid. And always i'm talking about even if you were prepapred, that's really something that you couldn't prevent. And you can;t deny that. It's just one of those things that happen, sure with someone care could have gotten to her faster but it was still stuck and stuck is stuck. I don't think there would have been a much different outcome either way. It was her first kid, and yes most of the time they don't grow to large, but I wouldn't see why they couldn't, women have babies that are to large. Or she could have had a deformidty or something of her bones, either way she wasn't dilated enough, and the pelvic bones were to small.
         
        07-20-2011, 11:36 AM
      #37
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilkitty90    
    it's just one of those things that happen, sure with someone care could have gotten to her faster but it was still stuck and stuck is stuck. I don't think there would have been a much different outcome either way. It was her first kid, and yes most of the time they don't grow to large, but I wouldn't see why they couldn't, women have babies that are to large. Or she could have had a deformidty or something of her bones, either way she wasn't dilated enough, and the pelvic bones were to small.
    Not true.
    My very first doe, Sweetpea, had a malformation in her uterus that caused her to birth the head of one kid and the front legs of the other at the same time. She did this the exact same way, both times. Both times, the vet was called, the kids were pushed back in, manipulated within the uterus (by the vet) and delivered individually rather than side by side as the doe attempted. She did this on her very first kidding, she survived and was fine, both kids were fine. She did the exact same thing on her second kidding (she was also a petite LaMancha doe bred to a very large Boer buck the second time around, BTW). The second time, also, with proper vet care the doe survived and was fine, both kids survived and were fine. That was when the vet determined there was something unusual about her uterus that caused this, so it was decided then she would not ever be bred again. But both times, both kids and the doe survived. Had they not been able to be delivered vaginally, a C section certainly would have been the next step. A timely c section could and WOULD have saved your goat, please don't try to say there was no other option but euthanasia, because it's simply not true.

    Yes, human women are also sometimes too small to deliver a baby vaginally. That's why C sections exist. I have certainly never heard a doctor say "well, she can't pass the baby, there is nothing to do, we had better just euthanize her instead." I doubt you or anyone else has either.

    If it's a procedure your parents elected not to have due to financial reasons or whatever, then that's your business, but there were ways to save the goat out there. And utilizing every option out there is a responsibility you have to accept when taking on the care of another life.

    You can hardly claim an animal you BOUGHT was a rescue. And the fact that you did not do all you could have to save her further shows that to be fact. You bought an animal that someone else could have potentially bought, someone else who might have potentially been more knowledgeable about goats, someone who might have had access to a vet, funds for a C section, or at the very least a car to take the animal into the clinic when it was suffering. So you can not claim you rescued this animal. What you did was very far from rescuing.

    I don't think anyone is trying to pick on you here, Lilkitty, or be mean. We are all sad the doe and her babies have been lost. I think we are just hoping a lesson has been learned. Failure to take responsibility for the measures you did not take does not imply that it has.
         
        07-20-2011, 11:47 AM
      #38
    Green Broke
    So basically indy, if she had not been pregnant, then she would have been considered a rescue right? Because then she would have been properly cared for, if some freak accident hadn't happened like it did, then she would still be considered a rescued goat. That's basically what your saying, and Indy I honestly want to say that I think that's what she was doing as well, front feet of one kid and head of another. But her pelvic bones were to small for hands to really repostion the kids, and yes I have stated maybe if we had had a car to get to a vet, she could have been saved as well as the babies, but I also want to mention that we are pretty much positive that the babies were dead upon delivery. I didn't feel any movement in her stomache on the day she was delivering, not before she started birthing or while she was trying. And we were told a C-section wasn't a garunteed save for any of them, and that it was risky and would progbably still loose all 3.
         
        07-20-2011, 12:00 PM
      #39
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilkitty90    
    so basically indy, if she had not been pregnant, then she would have been considered a rescue right? Because then she would have been properly cared for, if some freak accident hadn't happened like it did, then she would still be considered a rescued goat. That's basically what your saying, and Indy I honestly want to say that I think that's what she was doing as well, front feet of one kid and head of another. But her pelvic bones were to small for hands to really repostion the kids, and yes I have stated maybe if we had had a car to get to a vet, she could have been saved as well as the babies, but I also want to mention that we are pretty much positive that the babies were dead upon delivery. I didn't feel any movement in her stomache on the day she was delivering, not before she started birthing or while she was trying. And we were told a C-section wasn't a garunteed save for any of them, and that it was risky and would progbably still loose all 3.
    No. Even had she not been pregnant, she would not be a rescue in my book. You went to an auction and bought her. I don't consider Lola, my mule, a rescue, and I bought her out of the kill pen at the auction when she was being bid on by a known kill buyer. But I BOUGHT her. I didn't rescue her. I consider Monty a rescue, because I was contacted and asked to take him, no money exchanged hands for me to take him on, he did not have any other options. But I did not buy him, therefore I did not close off other options he might have had by taking him for myself.

    Pygmies are not often taken for meat at auctions. Like miniature horses - it happens, but most slaughter buyers wont bother due to their small size the profit/yield isn't worth it. Chances are, had you not bought her, some other person might have bought her. Someone who potentially WOULD have had the options available to save her in this circumstance. So you didn't rescue her, you limited her options because you were taking her to a home that was not able to go the distance in providing what she needed, which would have ultimately saved her.

    Regardless of the circumstances, even dead kids could have been delivered. Generally you don't feel any movement on the day before labor, as the babies are being positioned for birth. That is no indication of the health of the kids, at that point.

    Her labor was not her death sentence. That is the premise I am objecting to. The mentality that nothing could have been done, and therefore none of this was your fault. I don't agree with that.

    I don't know how many hours passed between the start of her birth and the time she was actually seen by a vet (if she even was, ultimately? From the sounds of your last post, it sounds like she never actually even WAS seen by the vet. Did she just die on her own during the birth, really?) but I know it was greater than 2 hours, at that point it was already too late for the first kid, I would just about guarantee. I know you mentioned you had contacted some goat breeders, but (not to be mean) but I honestly find that kind of hard to believe when you stated that there were none in your area when I initially suggested it. Similar to when I suggested you get in touch with herding trainers for your dog - I suspect you didn't even bother to really look.

    IF you tried to pull the kids yourself, you killed your goat. Flat out. You can NOT pull kids on a goat like you can on horses and cows. I had cautioned that before, but I doubt that was listened to either. That is all I will say about that.
         
        07-20-2011, 12:47 PM
      #40
    Green Broke
    Yes I hadn't found one yet, but that a quick run through on the internet. Then I started calling people and tracked 2 down. Both said nothing could be done.
    And as I said, we did take her up to the vet and has her euthanized. I told you we did. The stuck kids arn't what killed her, we had her put down, she was simply in way to much pain and you could easily tell that. I think that was the best option for her at the time. Better then letting her lay around and suffer like one of the goat breeders said right? He wanted us to let her lay there and check on her every 30 minutes "she should repositin the baby herself and get it out" no I don't think she would have. She would have laid there and died and very painful and heartbreaking death. So we did what we did.
         

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