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Sandy Hook Conspiracy

This is a discussion on Sandy Hook Conspiracy within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category

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        01-16-2013, 05:02 PM
      #21
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FlyGap    
    Impressionable wackos influenced by violent movies and games, and no one is holding their parents responsible...

    How can you hold the parent responsible for the actions of their adult mentally ill child?
    And in the Sandy Hook case, the parent is dead.
         
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        01-16-2013, 05:03 PM
      #22
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FlyGap    
    I believe that.
    So do I. Anyone that doesn't believe the radical left wingers don't try to take advantage of these events hasn't paid much attention. They do every time...every time. Look no further than this board...was anyone talking about gun control before the Newtown event? Nothing has changed since before the event - we had the same gun crime issues before the shooting as after. But after the event, here comes the gun control advocates.

    That is not to say the radical right wing wackos don't do the same thing in situations they can take advantage of. Honestly, I'm not sure why we would expect anything less - it is human nature to take advantage of a situation to advance your agenda. In this case though, it is creating victims of the families of the deceased...sort of like those sick wackos that protest at military funerals...
    FlyGap likes this.
         
        01-16-2013, 05:09 PM
      #23
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlexS    
    How can you hold the parent responsible for the actions of their adult mentally ill child?
    In this particular case I believe her stupidity in keeping unsecured guns in the house and teaching her son to shoot has already been discussed. She provided both knowledge and access and taught him to shoot. No access, and the shooting would never have occurred. If he hadn't been taught to shoot the shooting would never have occurred. I said earlier that I considered her at least as responsible as her son, but frankly I was trying to be civil and not speak too ill of the dead. My actual opinion is she is responsible for the shootings. He might have done some other evil deed - who knows, but with no access and no knowledge of firearms he could not have done what he did...
    kitten_Val and FlyGap like this.
         
        01-16-2013, 05:09 PM
      #24
    Green Broke
    Do I like thinking our government could do something like this? No.

    Do I think they would refrain from it if it suited them? Sadly, that answer is also no.

    You don't have to go far into our history to see the things the government has done. The Tuskegee experiments, for instance. The use of our soldiers as guinea pigs for LSD for another...the list is endless, starting with the measles/smallpox laced blankets that were given as gifts to Indians.

    Looking worldwide, Mao's Cultural Revolution, Pol Pot and the killing fields of Cambodia, Hitler's Solutions to Jews, and others...all would have been beyond thought, yet all occurred.

    Sadly. I think our "leaders" are no more to be trusted now, than they ever have been. Power corrupts. Absolute power destroys.
    FlyGap likes this.
         
        01-16-2013, 05:15 PM
      #25
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Faceman    
    In this particular case I believe her stupidity in keeping unsecured guns in the house and teaching her son to shoot has already been discussed. She provided both knowledge and access and taught him to shoot. No access, and the shooting would never have occurred. If he hadn't been taught to shoot the shooting would never have occurred. I said earlier that I considered her at least as responsible as her son, but frankly I was trying to be civil and not speak too ill of the dead. My actual opinion is she is responsible for the shootings. He might have done some other evil deed - who knows, but with no access and no knowledge of firearms he could not have done what he did...
    After dealing with the idiocy that calls itself MH in this country, it may be that she tried to take guns out of house or limit his access to them and shooting, but his doctor/therapist told he she was infringing on his rights.

    I saw this working with group homes, things that made perfect, logical sense, were set aside by therapists, welfare or their guardians. Such as allowing the child molesters/violent "consumers" to watch wrestling, or taking them to learn martial arts. Frankly when you have people like that that are already violent and broke their mother's arm? They don't need to learn anything else that will enable them to hurt people. And if someone has molested a 4 year old? You don't give them access to porn either...but such is the state of mental health in our country that it thinks those things make sense.

    And when he first learned to shoot guns, there may have been no cause to think this would happen.

    And for all the push to lock doors, bar windows, and keep people like this out of schools, all he would have had to do was crash a car into building, or circle it with can of gas and torch it and what then?

    The mentally ill in this country are being watched over by a band of lunatics for that matter. No common sense among any of them.
    Allison Finch, AlexS, bsms and 1 others like this.
         
        01-16-2013, 05:17 PM
      #26
    Trained
    If you think this horrible event isn't being exploited by the anti-gun crowd, ask how many people are killed each year by "assault weapons".

    I don't know the answer, but in 2011 there were 323 homicides using rifles of all kinds. 323 out of 12,664 homicides. Hands and fists killed 726.

    FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 11

    Since the large majority of rifles are not "assault rifles", it looks to me like a total ban of all assault rifles wouldn't have much impact on the number of murders. Nor are rifles the easiest way to walk thru a "No Gun Zone" like schools killing people. Handguns would be easier to conceal until the last moment, and you can carry a lot of them. Nor will banning large capacity magazines help, since large capacity magazines are more likely to jam - as one did in Colorado.

    Yet what are the politicians focusing on? Banning assault weapons (aka 'scary looking rifles') and banning high capacity magazines. Or expanding the "gun free zones", which would be better described as places where only criminals and lunatics have access to guns.

    Nor are pro-gun "nuts" exploiting this event. Gun owners only got involved after many calls for gun bans and gun registration and restrictions on carrying concealed weapons were proposed. The NRA refused to make any comment other than one of sympathy until after the politicians started talking about gun bans.

    It seems to me there are two pretty common threads in these mass shootings: nuts who cannot be committed or registered as mentally dangerous, and gun free zones.

    Oh...and it takes almost no training to shoot a gun from close range at unarmed people. Skill only comes in when the victim has the chance to fight back...
    FlyGap likes this.
         
        01-16-2013, 05:20 PM
      #27
    Green Broke
    [quote=AlexS;1847361]How can you hold the parent responsible for the actions of their adult mentally ill child?

    And in the Sandy Hook case, the parent is dead.[/quote

    And how can you not? When you live with someone like this, you are to some degree responsible I think.

    This is also something I saw when working with group homes. The parent many time will not see what is going on.

    And too many times it is also because the kid is getting a crazy check and they know if they report things, they will lose access to that money.

    Funny how parent's aren't allowed to discipline their kids, but they are responsible when things go wrong and there needs to be someone to blame.

    The mother's main stupidity I think was that she let him KNOW, according to what I've read, and others please correct me if I am wrong, that she was planning to put him away. What did she think he was going to do, go quietly into that night?

    And nice the father got shed of his nutjob son, and has a good life. Maybe if he had stuck around, things would be different right now.
    FlyGap likes this.
         
        01-16-2013, 06:14 PM
      #28
    Banned
    I sought mental health treatment for a very mentally ill foster kid. He was just given meds and not a diagnosis because he was under 18, they won't attach severe diagnosis to minors.
    Once he is an adult, it will then be his choice to seek treatment, unless he offers to hurt himself or others.

    So basically, the profession was telling me to just wait until he does something bad, then help would be available.

    Great. Thanks.
         
        01-16-2013, 06:40 PM
      #29
    Super Moderator
    We live 25 miles from Sandy Hook. We have friends that live there and in Newtown. A daughter of one of our friends was teaching at this school until not long before the shooting. We know people who knew the shooters mother and saw the boy around the area.
    I have it first hand that the whole scene was total mayhem with armed troopers, first responders, ambulances etc - they threw everything they had at it.
    There is no evidence that she had to told him she was having him put away or that she intended to have him put away. The only thing she was guilty of was loving her son too much to see the depth of his problems and being negligent in allowing him free access to so many guns
    The father was never absent in the sense that he had disapeared and abandoned them , he had remarried but had never rejected his son - it was the boy who didn't deal well with the divorce and chose not to spend time with his father. He had handed over the home and a considerable income to his wife - they were affluent people
    Spewing out stupid conspiracy theories like this to try to discredit people who are calling for better gun controls is totally counter-productive as its so insane that it should lead to the person responsible having their gun licence revoked on the grounds that he clearly has some form of mental problems himself and his action and that of anyone who would support it is just going to hurt responsible gun owners.
    Allison Finch likes this.
         
        01-16-2013, 06:56 PM
      #30
    Trained
    The recommendations made by the Connecticut Conference of Municipalities would include the following:
    • Limiting the capacity of rifle and handgun magazines to no more than 10 bullets.
    • Requiring a rifle permit for those purchasing any long gun such as a hunting rifle.
    • Requiring a firearm permit in order to purchase ammunition.
    • Prohibiting individuals from buying more than one gun in a 30 day period.
    • Requiring trigger locks to be provided with each fire arm sale.
    • Outlawing the possession and purchasing of body armor.
    CCM announces gun control proposals - WFSB 3 Connecticut

    Anyone want to explain how this would help prevent someone from murdering their mother and then going out and shooting people in a gun free zone? Or prevent a repeat of the Colorado shooting, or the shooting of someone like Gabby Giffords?

    Let alone reduce the 12,000 murders each year (with under 400 from rifles)?

    But no, they aren't exploiting the Newtown shooting...
    mvinotime likes this.
         

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