Sea World/ZOO's and animal captivity debate
 
 

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Sea World/ZOO's and animal captivity debate

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    02-25-2010, 12:37 PM
  #1
Showing
Sea World/ZOO's and animal captivity debate

Hey everyone,
The unfortunate incident that happened at Sea World brought up this interesting conversation here at work. From the letter that was brought up on the web, it looks like all whales held captive in Iceland and imported will never be able to be brought back to Iceland waters. That leaves them to stay captive the remainder of their life.

Now looking at Tilikum's situation or other captive animals that were once in the wild, would you be willing to go to places such as Zoo's or other facilities? This thread is not a matter of discussing if zoo keeping or animal captivity is right or wrong.

With recent events, does your view or has your thinking changed on visiting such parks?
     
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    02-25-2010, 02:06 PM
  #2
Green Broke
Yes, mine has. As much as they say that capturing these animals and placing them behind glass will save the species and research is being done, at what cost to the animals?

As in the case of Tillikum, he can never be returned to him home and he has obviously been driven to the point of aggressive behavior by his hears in captivity. This is an animal that is used to migrating thousands of miles a year over its entire life time and has been scooped up into a tiny chlorinated pool to perform for people, and now that he has been driven to being a dangerous animal and killing 3 people, he no option but to be killed? What a sad life, what a terrible end to a terrible life.

What is more, even if the whales are bred in captivity, they can never be placed back in the wild, not like the eagles that were mentioned in the other thread, being born in captivity places them with an automatic handicap, so where as yes the overall numbers increase(and BTW, WHERE DO THEY ALL GO???) they have to live their lives behind glass, and will never get to experience life in the ocean where they belong.

It is just like circus elephants, huge highly intelligent creatures used to a life of roaming and foraging, highly instinct driven and forced to live their lives in shackles and be poked with bull hooks, what a life. These animals get little to no actual turn out, they are chained by their feet to long chains in rows in large barn type structures and only allowed tiny spaces to move around in, they are beaten into submission and forced to perform a few minutes every night, then placed back in chains. They develop stereotypies just like over stalled horses, head bobbing and weaving, shifting and rocking off their feet. And then out of the blue they snap and kill 15 people and are shot or euthanize, and why? Because they are wild animals acting as wild animals do, but they are expected to act domesticated all for human pride , entertainment and profit(just like the Orcas).


Sure we people see these animals in the air condition and cozy little enclosures at zoos and parks and we think "gee what a life, I with I could lay around all day and do nothing" but what we do not realize is that these are living breathing hormone and instinct driven wild animals. I guarantee you you give a lion a choice between sitting in a lion pit at the Saint Louis zoo its entire life or fighting for its life on the Savannah, he will choose the latter. Wild animals do not think the way that we do, they think like animals. They enjoy their freedom and hunting and killing and breeding and fighting, it is what they are made to do. They are not made to sit behind glass every day.

Trainers and keepers work every day to try to keep these animals stimulated, but if you notice, it never seems to last too long. The animals grow bored and restless and resort to aggressive or animal behavior to entertain and satisfy their hunting and foraging needs.

At the STL zoo it is a fact that you have a better chance of being struck by lightening than seeing one of the lions actually move more than a few feet around its exhibit, why? They are kept in a pit with high concrete walls, they can not see the horizon, all they see is cold concrete and a circle of sky, the wild spirit has been forced out of them by endless days of monotony and boredom.


What humans see as cushy easy life, wild animals see as a prison with no hope of ever going home to hunt on the Savannah or dive deep into the oceans ever again.
     
    02-25-2010, 02:25 PM
  #3
Banned
No!

Like Kevin pointed out in the other thread. Zoos and animal parks give people the ability to see animals they would never see otherwise. People work harder to protect and simply learn about things that they have experience with. Even this trainer that was killed stated at one point that a visit to a park like Sea World was what made her want to get into whales.

Zoos and animal parks do so much good for the animals in the long run. The knowledge gained about breeding and health concerns and such is priceless for the long term survival of many species. The tickets to get in pay for that.



I have met one of the elephant handlers that works at the zoo closest to me. Those elephants are no less important to her than her dog at home is. They are her life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeysuga    
What humans see as cushy easy life, wild animals see as a prison with no hope of ever going home to hunt on the Savannah or dive deep into the oceans ever again.
They are animals, not humans. They do not think like you do.
     
    02-25-2010, 02:44 PM
  #4
Showing
Honeysuga, so much misinformation in one little post.

Zoos, zoological parks, and ocean parks all let people see animals that they never would normally. If people are invested emotionally, they'll want to make sure the animals are treated correctly in captivity as well as in the wild.

Research of wild animals has to be funded, and if the public isn't on board with that the research will never happen. Parks like these help fund that research.

Plus, when was the last time you went to a zoo/zoological park? With the study of wild animals in captivity, many things have changed over the years.

The animals are being put into more natural habitats than the old concrete places they used to be housed. They're also given mental stimulation, and are required to figure out how to get their food using their natural agilities, instincts and intelligence. The food is no longer just thrown to them.

More and more zoos/parks are going to the above mentioned things, and the old style ones are dying out. What you said USED to be the norm. It no longer IS the norm.

Plus, where did you get all these ideas about elephants being abused, misused, and 'held by chains'? That old court case was thrown out because the accusations were found to be FALSE, and the 'expert witness' admitted to lying under oath.

Instead of getting all your info from animal rights propaganda, do some real research into these issues.
     
    02-25-2010, 03:05 PM
  #5
Weanling
^^ agree 100%
Also, if it wasn't for zoos and captive breeding some species would be totally out of the picture.
     
    02-25-2010, 04:03 PM
  #6
Green Broke
I was not once giving misinformation. I was not speaking of zoo elephants, if you read my post I was talking about circus elephants, I have seen them chained at every single circus I have ever been too. I have also seen the bloody wounds behind their ears and shoulders form the bull hooks. Don't assume I am going just by what others have said, I am not I am going by what I have seen personally and making a hypothesis based on that information, there is no such thing as a wrong hypothesis.

I have been to the STL zoo recently too, the lions are still in the pit. Though I must say, I really have little qualm with the zoos, they are improving just as you said, I have no problem with animals kept in an enriching an healthy environment. It is when those animals are exploited for profit that bothers me.

Why can't they just place Tillikum in a zoo exhibit with a few other whales as a breeding pod and let them be whales? Plenty of stimulation and people can still see and experience them... Because it doesn't rake in the big bucks. So you even know how much of the money raised by the shows goes to actual whale research?

The public can experience whales without them used as a theme park attraction, the internet is an amazing thing. Not to mention the ever popular whale and sea life excursions available at most coastal vacation areas.

Just because you disagree with me, do not assume that I am wrong, I am not wrong on a single thing. The animals themselves are proof, how they lash out, how they dull after time in the exhibits, how they develop the stereotypies, it is obvious they are unhappy. So you are saying it is good to sacrifice the lives of the animals for the benefit of people? So we can learn about them to save them from us? Sounds kind of bassackwards to me.
     
    02-25-2010, 04:08 PM
  #7
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeysuga    
Just because you disagree with me, do not assume that I am wrong, I am not wrong on a single thing.

no comment

This thread is going to be a great read though! Very informative. I wish I knew more on the subject, my older sister is a marine biologist and they even study how to make the water more natural, just for smaller things like crabs and fish... but I assume that the research is for a bigger picture.
     
    02-25-2010, 04:15 PM
  #8
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinSoLow    
no comment
I agree...um...yeah, no comment....


Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinSoLow    
This thread is going to be a great read though! Very informative. I wish I knew more on the subject, my older sister is a marine biologist and they even study how to make the water more natural, just for smaller things like crabs and fish... but I assume that the research is for a bigger picture.
It is amazing isn't it. I got to go into the water treatment area for the polar bear, penguin and sea lion exhibits recently. The thought and technology that goes into this stuff is just amazing. They want their animals to be as comfortable and natural as possible. And the knowledge is always expanding and even the small zoos seem to be up on the most current information and technology.


Honeysuga, do you realize how much money Ringling Broths spends on Elephant research? They are the reason baby elephants orphaned by poachers have a chance now days.
     
    02-25-2010, 04:19 PM
  #9
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwaysbehind    
It is amazing isn't it. I got to go into the water treatment area for the polar bear, penguin and sea lion exhibits recently. The thought and technology that goes into this stuff is just amazing. They want their animals to be as comfortable and natural as possible. And the knowledge is always expanding and even the small zoos seem to be up on the most current information and technology.
Thing is, everyone that keeps these animals has to stay on top of things, even the circus, becuase one little complaint gets out and they are shut down, attacked by peta even more so than they already are, fined big bucks, and possibly go to jail.... along with a lot of public out cry and loss of respect.
     
    02-25-2010, 04:32 PM
  #10
Banned
Oh, I totally agree.

Let me add that unhealthy and unhappy animals do not perform well and do not show well to the public.
     

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