Supreme Court upholds health care law - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 152 Old 06-28-2012, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kitten_Val View Post
I tried to find any actual numbers on how much you have to pay for insurance with this law, and I couldn't find anything (only how much you'll be charged if you don't buy one). Has anyone seen it?
This is what I meant to post earlier, same site but the actual link I think you may be looking for

Insurance Choices |


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post #12 of 152 Old 06-28-2012, 03:48 PM
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I was shocked when he did it, now it's becoming more clear. Very wise.
Now, everyone in Washington needs to be replaced. Some of this is good, some is bad, it's up to us and the market to decide, not the Gov.

Last night I went to a dinner party and met an AMAZING woman from GB. She Immigrated here 20 years ago. She was the first woman to parachute off the Eiffel tower, she hand makes world renowned parachute harnesses, teaches motorcycle classes, you name it. She moved here to get away from Europe and welfare states. She also said she could never have done all this in GB.
She said that then and now, the US is the last hope on the PLANET where a person with a strong work ethic and a dream can come to succeed. In the past several years she has been pounding her head in frustration because we are following in the footsteps of Europe, all miserable failures.

I hope this all works out for the best.
Thanks for those links.

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post #13 of 152 Old 06-28-2012, 04:47 PM
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Long Live John Roberts.

I for one am elated that the Mandate was upheld.
Getting millions insured will reduce the burden on all of us.
Having insurance is important and requiring people to buy it is as Chief Justice Roberts wrote a form of another tax.
The Affordable Healthcare Act will assure the health not only of individuals in this country but our countries economic health as well.
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post #14 of 152 Old 06-28-2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dbarabians View Post
I for one am elated that the Mandate was upheld.
Getting millions insured will reduce the burden on all of us.
Having insurance is important and requiring people to buy it is as Chief Justice Roberts wrote a form of another tax.
The Affordable Healthcare Act will assure the health not only of individuals in this country but our countries economic health as well.
As usual, I admire your intent, but you need to face reality. Obamacare has a long and bumpy road ahead of it before it - if ever - becomes anything significant. There are things imbedded within the program that will be decided by the Supreme Court down the line. And despite what you might think to the contrary, there is no way we can pay for it. Heck, even the Democratic leadership is beginning to admit that - don't you listen to your own folks?

Your elation surprises me a bit for a couple of reasons that affect you and your patients directly.

First is the fact that the government will be able to seize people's medical records. That is a violation of both the letter and principle of HIPAA, and will no doubt end up as a Supreme Court case. In the case of your own patients, that means their drug and mental issues would go directly into their dossier. Between hacking, leaks, and such, their issues would be far from private. I have a real big problem with that myself, and I would think you would too, as that virtually destroys patient confidentiality.

The second issue is the fact that the court decided it was not constitutional for the federal government to force states to expand their Medicaid programs. I believe the current count stands somewhere around 30 states that are not going to do so, and I suspect more will follow. Sadly, this will limit how much Obamacare will help those the program is intended to help to begin with - those without the means to secure insurance on their own. I'm honesstly not sure where that will leave us. As silly as it may sound, we may end up with segregated states - it is possible that poor people may migrate to those states with the better handouts. We could end up with 30 states with predominantly kiddle and upper class people, and 20 states with predominantly poor people. This could also portend a massive migration that would have a lot of demographic rammifications.

In different times, I wouldn't view these and other issues withthe flawed legislation as major stumbling blocks. Historically it is not uncommon to pass legislation and then go through a period of modifications until it is actually viable. But in this day and time, as polarized as we are, I can't see that happening. As I said, Obamacare is in for a long, bumy ride before anything comes of it - if ever.

Some of the provisions of Obamacare are both good and needed - I don't know of any reasonable person that would argue that. But the package as a whole is flawed, inefficient, far less inclusive than intended, and of course carries a price tag neither the public, business, or government can meet.

Of course that's inevitable when you have a bunch of wacko liberals passing legislation behind closed doors, and then make the famous Pelosi remark that Congress needs to pass it so they can see what it says. Obamacare will never come to full fruition without consensus, and as long as their are morons like Pelosi - on both sides of the isle - consensus will never happen. Whether it is this fall or 2 or 4 or 8 or however many years from now, Obamacare will be repealed - unless it is modified, of course to become viable. I'm just not sure what event or series of events it will take to get both sides of the isle working to gether to modify it. Right now it seems as if the term compromise is no longer in the beltway dictionary...
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post #15 of 152 Old 06-28-2012, 08:11 PM
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I going to make this one comment. This subject I can not get my head around... Its complexes and did I say complexes?

I miss my NHS back at home! not perfect but I had less issues with front line treatment and seen a doc than I do in Maine.

Right now tho my wife spending $400 a month on my care though her state. I told her to drop me because now we are fighting to keep the house as well feeding and paying gas and trying to get ready for next winter. Also I hardly see the doctor and I am now worried that as we can not get any support of any kind this going to to cost me more one way or another...
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post #16 of 152 Old 06-28-2012, 09:04 PM
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I'll admit, I'm young and slightly clueless on the whole subject, but I can't imagine how this is going to affect my parents considering my father has Leukemia and my mom has Multiple Sclerosis. =/ I am just glad that I am about to be in the Navy and one less responsibility for them.
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post #17 of 152 Old 06-28-2012, 11:07 PM
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Faceman both of us agree that our present and past system of providing healthcare needed reform
Yes there will be more challenges and the system and provisions will need to be adjusted as the AHA becomes effective.
We as a nation had to do something.
I volunteer here at an AIDS service organization.
There are 1,000 active clients that utilize the services of the agency.
Most are using Medicare or Medicaid to pay for their Medical needs.
We have always encouraged our clients to work.
However if they do they could lose their access to medical care.
the affordable Healthcare Act will prevent insurance companies from denying them insurance due to pre existing conditions.
We can now encourage people to work and provide for themselves.
Regain their independence and dignity.
You and I both understand that any legislatioin will not satisfy everyone.
On another note,
What are yuour feelings about the Chief Justice's surprise stance on the issue.
I and others thought it would be up to Kennedy.
Perhaps we have another Sandra Day O Conner. Shalom
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post #18 of 152 Old 06-28-2012, 11:20 PM
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one of the provisions of the law is to make preexisting conditions not elibible as reasons for exclusion.
I am not sure how I personally will fare with this new law. From what I have heard , out health care system was at the point of collapse anyway. Well, maybe not collapse. But the need to pay for the many poor people who got their medical care at emergency rooms, funded by donations from the hospital, then fobbed off on paying customers was about to bring down the system anyway. And Medicare, too. It really was at a WE MUST DO SOMETHING place.

I don't know enough about this new law to have an opinon on it. It does make me wary though.
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post #19 of 152 Old 06-29-2012, 12:33 AM
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I give it a year before it gets axed by the new administration.
I also foresee the people that voted for it getting tossed in November.
I foresee the"crack the whip" effect...the people are pissed, and w will come out come November.
The crack heads that put this abomination into place will find themselves in the unemployment lines, it will be repealed in its entirety, and there will be a reckoning trading place.
We have more people receiving entitlements than eve before in history.
W have government agencies PROMOTING welfare and similar programs.
We have the fewest people employed in the history of our great nation.
The notion that we can spend ourselves into prosperity is tantamount to trying to tell me that its possible to pick up a turd from the clean end.
It is an unsustainable model of society, it is fiscally impossible, and I am quite sure there will be a fight about it in one way or another.
Will it help some people? Yes.
However, to help 30 million, 420 million just got hosed in a bad way.
Oh, wait, my bad. Almost forgot.
25% of us receive some sort of subsidy, the true unemployment rate is well above 15% when taking into consideration people who quit looking for work, and we have more debt than we can fathom.
So, respectfully to everyone, I appreciate your perspectives on this hot topic, but of we hope to have any semblance of survivability as a nation, this trash has to go.
Sorry if my thoughts hurt your feelings, or you stand to gain with it, but the facts are the facts, and it id an unsustainable path.
Europe already did this type of thing.
It failed miserably.
Massachsetts tried it.
They almost went bankrupt shortly after inception because it was unsustainable
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post #20 of 152 Old 06-29-2012, 01:14 AM
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AZ I do not share your contempt for the Affordable Healthcare Act.
This is a lnadmark decision that will affect us all . More people will now have access to preventive healthcare than ever before.
This alone will reduce the amount of money the federal government provides to state and local medical facilities.
Thereby saving money for all Americans.
This decision will probably not cost Obama or the Democrats any votes.
Those opposed to the measure were not likely to vote for Obama anyway.
The majority of americans do see the benefits of the AHA.
The unpopular part was the mandate that required Americans that are uninsured to purchase insurance.
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