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Supreme Court upholds health care law

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  • Preconditions and health care and cost and 2014

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    06-29-2012, 09:45 AM
  #31
Trained
AZ that's my point.
With the ability to get insured despite pre conditions the people that have chronic illnesses can return to work.
AIDS medication cost thousands of dollars a month for 1 prescription.
You must take a combination of three.
Some people have medication that totals 9,000 $ a month.
They utilize Medicare or Medicaid.
Now they can become employed and access insurance.
In the long run this will save the US billions and insurance companies can no longer pick and choose their customers. Shalom
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    06-29-2012, 09:49 AM
  #32
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
ST, I've seen this one about precondition before. But what really ticks me off there you have to be uninsured for 6 months before you are eligible. From my understanding (reading here and there) health insurance companies can't reject you anymore if you have precondition starting 2014 (I'm saying that because my relative was rejected while back exactly because of the precondition). But how much will be the insurance? If same $700/month (or even more) than what's the difference really?
That is the Trillion Dollar Question.

I have pre-existing conditions, not major but pay a higher rate now than someone without a pre-existing condition. It is private Insurance as I am Self Employed. I am over 50, have a 3,500.00 Maximum out of Pocket per year (include copay and deductible) and pay less than 200.00 a month.... I would bet in 2014 my premiums will be going up a LOT......

The problem is a friend in another State with no pre-existing condition pays currently 375.00 for the exact same type policy with all the same features.
THIS is one of the main thing Obamacare does not address, COMPETITION across State Lines which actually Makes Healthcare more Affordable.....



.
     
    06-29-2012, 09:59 AM
  #33
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarabians    
Faceman...On another note,
What are yuour feelings about the Chief Justice's surprise stance on the issue.
I and others thought it would be up to Kennedy.
Perhaps we have another Sandra Day O Conner. Shalom
I don't like politics on the Supreme Court. I am not naive and realize that a conservative person will have different leanings than a liberal person, and therefore interpret constitutionality a bit differently, but I would like to see much less political involvement.

I believe the decision was the correct one, and give kudos to Roberts for voting for what was right rather than giving in to his political leanings.

However, even though I believe the decision was correct, the case was merely to decide the constitutionality of the law - not the merits of the law.

I still oppose Obamacare and think it should be repealed if it cannot be modified to be viable. As I think I said earlier, you are living in a fantasy world if you think it is viable as it stands. Your interpretation of the costs is out of date and incorrect. Even the Democrats are admitting the cost is going to be far higher than the initial hype, which was lies of course, and many Democrats have become as concerned with the real cost as the Republicans have been all along. Nothing is free, which you and most liberals don't seem to be able to fully grasp. There is a limit on how much you can tax the 50% of the population that pays tax. We are not able to meet our obligations now with 50% of the people carrying 100% of the load. All of Obama's proposals reflect his intent to reduce that even farther, having only 40% of the people carry 100% of the load. That is insanity, quite frankly. Small business formation and expansion, and their accompanying job creation, is already greatly stifled by excessive taxes and regulations. Liberals do not seem to understand that 10 people or entities paying a 25% tax generates more revenues than 4 people or entities paying a 50% tax. I don't know if liberals have poor math skills or can't afford a $10 calculator or what their problem is. In any case, the first order of business should be to get our economy in order - then look for ways to improve our healthcare system and/or our quality of life. You guys are putting the cart before the horse. You are concerned about your patients, which I understand, but if the economy were robust, they could get good jobs with good benefits, which would resolve much of their problem. Sure, pre-existing conditions should not be an issue, and sure, there should be no catastophic limits, but those kinds of issues can be attaacked without jeopardizing our national economic condition and prolonging the recession, which quite frankly, economic formulas aside, is actually a depression where the rubber meets the road.

We need a starting point to resolve our healthcare issues. And Obamacare COULD be a starting point (as ANY plan could, regardless of its origin). But that is in theory. But when it comes to practical applications, as I said in an earlier post, we are too polarized in this point of history to modify that plan to the extent it needs to be modified to make it viable. That is why it will be repealed at some point. I wish the situation were different - I wish we could take that proposal, modify it, implement it, and move on down the road. But I think it is unrealistic and idealistic to seriously consider that possible at this time...
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    06-29-2012, 10:30 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernTrailsGA    
I am over 50, have a 3,500.00 Maximum out of Pocket per year (include copay and deductible) and pay less than 200.00 a month....
You have good rates in your state! I'm paying mom's private insurance right now, and it's much worse here.
     
    06-29-2012, 10:35 AM
  #35
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarabians    
With the ability to get insured despite pre conditions the people that have chronic illnesses can return to work.
dba, but lots of people with precondition work. I don't think people stay off work just to use Medicaid or Medicare simply because they have a precondition. Frankly I doubt this particular reason will save billions.
     
    06-29-2012, 11:47 AM
  #36
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
dba, but lots of people with precondition work. I don't think people stay off work just to use Medicaid or Medicare simply because they have a precondition. Frankly I doubt this particular reason will save billions.
KV, I don't believe that is true. Even I, as adverse as I am to public assistance, would quit work if I had cancer or something, no money, and the only way I could get treatment and keep from croaking off was with Medicaid. That is one of the inherent weanesses in our system that needs to be fixed. I don't think Obamacare is the answer, but it, among other things, needs to be fixed...

Just wanted to add, I do agree of course that it won't "save billions" - that is just another liberal lie. What it would save in Medicaid would be faar, far offset by higher insurance costs across the board. The other thing, and I'm not sure db understands, although I have explained it, is that all states are not going to get on board...thus the Medicaid expansion will only be in a minority of states - it's not as if everyone is going to have access to the expanded Medicaid that goes hand in hand with Obamacare...
     
    06-29-2012, 12:00 PM
  #37
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceman    
KV, I don't believe that is true. Even I, as adverse as I am to public assistance, would quit work if I had cancer or something, no money, and the only way I could get treatment and keep from croaking off was with Medicaid.
FM, I absolutely agree with what you are saying. What I meant is if the person works and has insurance through the company you wouldn't drop out just to get Medicaid, and some people with precondition prefer to work and keep the expensive insurance with big deductible (because it's still cheaper that way depending on how much you are making). So I'm not sure there are that many people who don't work just to get an insurance.

BTW, I do support the idea that company should provide insurance for the employees. I think it would be a fair treatment. Speaking from the own experience some contracting companies charge the federals the "benefit" money but lacking to provide those benefits to the employees.
     
    06-29-2012, 12:22 PM
  #38
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernTrailsGA    
That is the Trillion Dollar Question.

I have pre-existing conditions, not major but pay a higher rate now than someone without a pre-existing condition. It is private Insurance as I am Self Employed. I am over 50, have a 3,500.00 Maximum out of Pocket per year (include copay and deductible) and pay less than 200.00 a month.... I would bet in 2014 my premiums will be going up a LOT......


.

By our standards , you have a screamin' deal on insurance. I think most people pay more than that.
We were paying $1,400. A month for a family of four, medical and dental. The coverage was good, with normal deductables and limits. It was COBRA and we only had to do it a few months, thank God!
Now we pay about $500 per month (our portion) and hubby's company pays rest, for same coverage for four persons. Really good deal for my state.
     
    06-29-2012, 12:48 PM
  #39
Super Moderator
I am thrilled the law was upheld and I think the voters will uphold it in November when they vote.

I was uninsurable because of my Arthritis and Degenerative Joint Disease in my spine. Before I was dropped all together, my rates were over $1500.00 / month with a $5000.00 deductible - for just me. I was tickled to turn 65 and get on Medicare with a supplement. I, once again have insurance.

I think all of the hacks that would rather see someone die (like the Tea Party members that cheered at the idea at one of the Republican debates) than see any kind of universal health care should face a loss of their good insurance.

Every person I have talked to about the bill and the problem that opposed the health care act ALL HAD INSURANCE. You get a pretty prejudiced opinion from those people.

We personally know people that have died of very treatable diseases or would not see a Doctor when they should because they had no insurance or way to pay. If you own anything and have a low paying job, you can lose everything to one health problem or accident. Health insurance for lower income people is not even an option. Preventive health care is not an option. Low income people often have to chose between food and a Doctor and the emergency room becomes their Doctor. ER waits are frequently 24 hours or more in big cities. Preventive health care is non-existant to these people.

More than 80% of bankruptcies filed site medical bills as the major problem contributing to the action. Medical bills are responsible for a huge number of foreclosures.

As cited before, many people refuse to work just so they have Medicaid for their children or for serious health problems. This is not just a few. There are many right here in the small town I live near.

When you cite polls -- they are mostly done by phone and are entirely done on land-lines. This tilts the numbers toward older and more conservative voters. They ignore young voters that only have cell phones or Computer phones like Vonnage. On the street, you see a LOT more acceptance of of Obama and Universal Health Care than you see reflected in land-line polls. I just hope they get out and vote.

When people find out how many good things are going to happen to THEM because of this bill and combine that with very popular parts of it (like children being able to stay on parents' policies until they are 26) and 'caps' removed for catastrophic illnesses, I think there will be fewer and fewer that want to get rid of it -- especially since no Republican has offered any other plan to help any of the the people that have no access or no money for health care or insurance but still work or want to work.
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    06-29-2012, 12:52 PM
  #40
Trained
Well, once again its all about "obama", and not the health care problems which existed long before this obamination of a health care "reform" law. It seems that people that are "for it" feel it is the best document ever prepared because Obama likes it, nevermind the contents. This can be evidenced by the fact they figure the product of Romney's health care dabblings were all bad, horrible, and evil - or, oddly, "no better than" Obama's. When healthcare law is decided by "team fans", you can bet it isn't going to end well.

There is no question we needed health care reform. It was not worth our freedom, imo, and I don't just mean in the way of being forced to pay for insurance.

I have not read it all...God bless anyone that can and does. When and if one reads even parts of it ..notice the "cutting and pasting" of verbage from current CFR's. That right there tells me this thing was slapped together in an "all nighter", and the great rush to slam it through congress by bypassing the ordinary "democratic republic" process tells me there were ulterior motives. WHAT was the rush?

Here is a fact: one can cross the border and buy an amazing number of "perscription drugs" (perscription in the US) off the shelf in Mexico....most of them manufactured in the US, and all of them for pennies on the dollar. Why ever is that???? Law suits. With respect to health care and its associated costs, this country's citizens would have benefited far, far more from tort reform than this particular "reform" action. No mention of that from "team obama", a BAR member, I believe.
     

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