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Vegetarian

This is a discussion on Vegetarian within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category

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        11-25-2011, 04:32 PM
      #111
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VT Trail Trotters    
    Now Bubba, the reason dogs and wolves, tigers and lions and horses and donkeys and zebras and horses can mate is because they have the same genus.
    That's not true in the case of cattle and bison, or in the case of many hybrid plants. Did you know that "genus" is an arbitrary qualifier that has little to no basis in actual biological relationships? It's true. It has no real meaning besides that we ascribe to it. And regardless, all of the above are listed as separate species, yet can interbreed with fertile offspring....which is absolutely against the scientific definition of species.

    Quote:
    This is close enough in the classification in the DNA that they can mate but the offspring is sterile so to make more you start over again.
    But the offspring aren't sterile in some cases....see previous posts, like the beefalo example.

    Quote:
    And people and apes are 99% same DNA but if you go to a classification chart and compare chimps and people we split off a ways at the top so thank god were are to far away to be that closely related to apes. And to keep it back to topic, I am not a vegetarian because I love meat and now another biology class, we humans are designed to be omnivores eat meat and plant material. Our earliest monkey ancestors would probably have been herbivores eating just plants. But over time we have become to have canine teeth meant to help rip meat off bone and were designed to eat meat wit out teeth if you ever look at them. And then compare them to some one in the back yard your horse and see how there teeth look. Flat and large and ours normally ridges and alternating "shapes" made to chew flesh where a horse grinds food.
    Again, see previous posts. Horses have canines far larger and sharper than ours, excellent for tearing flesh....yet they are herbivores. Whereas we have grinding molars for tough plant matter....but are omnivores. The tooth argument is not a very good one. Ever seen a hippo?



    Know what they eat? Plants.

    Quote:
    You can eat plants and be fine its just it takes longer to turn lettuce into lets say Allison Finch. Where meat is a lot closer in matter to Allison Finch. And that's why we have a single stomach and cows have 4 and horses have a big one that is just one like us.
    How does that make sense? Horses and cattle eat the same things, yet have very different gastrointestinal tracts.

    You still need protein in the diet, but you can get that from legumes like beans just as easily as you can from red meat. No matter your dietary preferences, you still have to eat balanced meals with all necessary nutrients. From an economical/biological "waste not, want not" premise, due to the 10% rule of the trophic level energy loss rule, it's far more efficient and environmentally friendly to raise plant crops for human consumption than it is to raise animals for human consumption.
         
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        11-25-2011, 04:32 PM
      #112
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VT Trail Trotters    
    Our earliest monkey ancestors would probably have been herbivores eating just plants.
    "Monkey"?! XD
         
        11-25-2011, 04:47 PM
      #113
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bubba13    
    . The tooth argument is not a very good one. Ever seen a hippo?



    Know what they eat? Plants.

    A pretty good indication of diet is the shape of the skull. People talk about the directionality of the eyes, that's one thing, but also, the shape of the jaw and it's connectors.
    I know in Anth, one of the ways the diets of the hominids were determined is looking at the muscle connections of the jaw at skull level. Thick jaw, tough food that needed a lot of chewing.

    My husband and I were discussing the relative jaw shapes of cats (obligate carnivore) versus dogs. Now cats MUST eat meat, but their jaw shape is not suited to grabbing and tearing like the dog...but consider the type of predator they are: they hide, they pounce, they shake to break the neck or disembowel with claws. Dogs (ok, the ones we haven't selectively bred out of the more 'natural' shape) have muzzle that extend so that they can grab and hold or tear.
    Our jawshape is not meant for biting to kill. For that, like the chimpanzees and bonobos, we rely on hands and tools to hunt smaller game or (yuck) to have scavenged.
    I do wonder if the hippos teeth evolved for protection or mating? I don't know enough about hippos to say, but aren't they rather aggressive?
    SarahAnn likes this.
         
        11-25-2011, 04:50 PM
      #114
    Banned
    They are, and I imagine it has to do with dominance displays more than anything else. Males will kill each other over females, and never ever try to cross a river with pissed-off hippos in it....they will literally bite you in half.
         
        11-25-2011, 07:09 PM
      #115
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bubba13    
    That's not true in the case of cattle and bison, or in the case of many hybrid plants. Did you know that "genus" is an arbitrary qualifier that has little to no basis in actual biological relationships? It's true. It has no real meaning besides that we ascribe to it. And regardless, all of the above are listed as separate species, yet can interbreed with fertile offspring....which is absolutely against the scientific definition of species.



    But the offspring aren't sterile in some cases....see previous posts, like the beefalo example.



    Again, see previous posts. Horses have canines far larger and sharper than ours, excellent for tearing flesh....yet they are herbivores. Whereas we have grinding molars for tough plant matter....but are omnivores. The tooth argument is not a very good one. Ever seen a hippo?



    Know what they eat? Plants.



    How does that make sense? Horses and cattle eat the same things, yet have very different gastrointestinal tracts.

    You still need protein in the diet, but you can get that from legumes like beans just as easily as you can from red meat. No matter your dietary preferences, you still have to eat balanced meals with all necessary nutrients. From an economical/biological "waste not, want not" premise, due to the 10% rule of the trophic level energy loss rule, it's far more efficient and environmentally friendly to raise plant crops for human consumption than it is to raise animals for human consumption.
    Well I don't know why in evolution horses have 1 stomach and cows a 4. And I was going to say some thing about your appendix but I forgot and anyway do you look this up or are you a biologist? The stuff I write is from what I already know.
         
        11-25-2011, 07:19 PM
      #116
    Started
    Remembers the appendix part, scientists are not sure but if so our appendix use to carry plant breaking down bacteria. And if we don't have them anymore then it takes us longer compared to meat. Look at termites with out there wood breaking down bacteria they could not eat the wood anymore than we can and we can't because we are not able to digest it unless you are.
         
        11-25-2011, 07:40 PM
      #117
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VT Trail Trotters    
    Well I don't know why in evolution horses have 1 stomach and cows a 4. And I was going to say some thing about your appendix but I forgot and anyway do you look this up or are you a biologist? The stuff I write is from what I already know.
    Well no offense intended, but your knowledge of biology is very limited. That is not meant as a slight at all - just saying. There are many things I don't know anything about either.

    Among other things, monkeys are not our ancestors - we evolved from a common ancestor.

    Horses and cows evolved different methods of breaking down cellulose in plants, which neither one (nor humans for that matter) can digest on their own. The digestion is accomplished by enzyme producing bacteria - in the cow's case, being a ruminant, these bacteria reside in the various stomachs, and in the horse's case, they reside in the hind gut area. Not all animals evolve the same method of digestion...look up rabbit digestion if you want a chuckle. Anyway, hope that helps on that issue.
         
        11-25-2011, 08:00 PM
      #118
    Started
    Well Faceman I am no biologist and I forgot about the common ancestor thing. I don't hear much about the begins of life thing so I am not to educated on it. And I don't know anything about cows or horses digestion other than a horse has 1 stomach and a cow 4.
         
        11-25-2011, 08:33 PM
      #119
    Banned
    I am a Biologist, actually, but that doesn't mean I'm above running to Wikipedia to confirm a point. And, speaking of, here's your appendix information: Appendix may be useful after all - Health - Health care - More health news - msnbc.com

    We can't digest cellulose--which is why cellery has little to no nutritional value for us--but we can digest all sugars, proteins, and fats, regardless of their source. And in that regard, the ultra-processed foods from the supermarket or McDonald's sure aren't good for use....

    Somewhat relevant, simplistic, protein summary: Difference Between Plant Protein and Animal Protein | Difference Between | Plant Protein vs Animal Protein
    SarahAnn likes this.
         
        11-25-2011, 08:59 PM
      #120
    Started
    See now Bubba this is why you are talking about things I have never head about because your the one whos job it is to know this stuff. And fast food is obvious not good for you filled with god who knows what. Like school mystery meat you could find out what exactly what it is.
         

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