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Vegetarian

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        12-21-2011, 11:47 PM
      #211
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tempest    
    A 99!! Wow, tell him I said congratulations. What was/is his job?
    Lol
    He's Supply xD
    I guess if he were to be in a civilian job it would be Logistics. Right now he is the one and only active duty supply person at an I&I in PA.
         
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        12-22-2011, 11:10 AM
      #212
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bubba13    
    [/

    Same with you, Face. What you're saying is fine and good--no doubt guilty as charged--but it has no bearing on what Bearkiller said. Do you really agree with this?

    I personally think that rocket launchers are not only ok for people in a free society to own but I think all local communities should have armory's set up (non government owned) with weapons to defend itself FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
    No, of course not - nor did I intimate that I did. Armed chaos is rarely, if ever, a reasonable solution to a problem...
         
        12-22-2011, 06:26 PM
      #213
    Banned
    Then am I missing the point of your post in #203? Afraid I'm not following.
         
        12-22-2011, 07:56 PM
      #214
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bubba13    
    Then am I missing the point of your post in #203? Afraid I'm not following.
    Evidently you are. I hadn't even read the post you were referring to that someone made about arming citizenry with rockets. Actually, I still haven't. Can't agree or disagree with something I haven't even read now, can I? My post was obviously in response to yours - not someone else's...did you miss the quote too?
         
        12-22-2011, 08:17 PM
      #215
    Banned
    This was the progression:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bearkiller    
    As a pro-gun person (who is in no way an activist) I will submit to you that the positions taken by anti gun people are invalid based on one (of the many) glaring weakness in their arguments. People have the RIGHT to defend themselves. I personally think that rocket launchers are not only ok for people in a free society to own but I think all local communities should have armory's set up (non government owned) with weapons to defend itself FROM THE GOVERNMENT. US history is pretty clear on this. The second ammendment is clear on this. Lets use this for an example: If you were dropped on an island in the middle of no where, with nothing. Your first basic instinct is self preservation. Food, water, and shelter. If someone were to try and attack you, would you have the right to defend yourself? Or would you be required to wait for some "authority"? The answer is simple. Defend yourself with whatever means required. We don't all live 5 minutes from the police station. I feel like it is my DUTY to defend my family. That's why I have a concealed weapons permit. People shouldn't have to have a permit to defend themselves. People have been killing people long before there were guns. There is no dispute to that.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bubba13    
    It was the only photo I could find of him in the crosshairs. I do recall your old signature, though.... "If you voted for Obama to prove you're not a racist, you'll have to vote for someone else to prove you're not an idiot this time," or something to that effect. Those politics are fine. The radical right notion that we need to batten down the hatches and arm ourselves with nukes to defend ourselves from the evil Guvmint is, well, alarmist and absurd.

    And changing subject, how about the peer-reviewed article I provided, that you said did not and could not exist?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Faceman    
    Easy for you to say, Mo - you are 21, so it's only the last 10 or 12 years that you are socially concious of. You have no basis of comparison because you know no other way of life. For those of us that are (substantially) older, we can remember a time when freedom actually existed in this country...too bad you missed it...
    The "nukes" thing was hyperbole, but easy to draw from rocket launchers, really. Bearkiller was saying far more than "we need our freedoms." He was, in effect, implying a physical revolution against the government should it encroach any more upon the individual's rights--or at least that's how I read the post. Not sure how else it could be read. Again, guns and war and anarchy. Hardly democracy; hardly realistic.

    Perhaps I'm making a big deal of this when it's not warranted (and I apologize, if so), but I simply would have thought you'd have known me better to interpret my posts in the way you have, thinking I needed a lecture on how America has deviated from the Founding Fathers' ideals and whatnot....I may be, in your eyes, a liberal and naive college student, but I'm not an closed-minded, history-illiterate idiot (and I know you aren't exactly calling me that, but my feelings are a bit bruised all the same). Your points are all fine and good, in other words, I'm just not sure why you felt the need to mention them at all except through a misinterpretation of what I've said. I'm hardly against personal rights (or tighter gun control), and I'm hardly against changing the governments' policies to grant more individual freedoms....

    And now I've created a scene, but I'm going to go ahead and make a fool of myself and post this as I've already spent the time typing it up....
         
        12-22-2011, 09:09 PM
      #216
    Foal
    Quote:
    As a pro-gun person (who is in no way an activist) I will submit to you that the positions taken by anti gun people are invalid based on one (of the many) glaring weakness in their arguments. People have the RIGHT to defend themselves. I personally think that rocket launchers are not only ok for people in a free society to own but I think all local communities should have armory's set up (non government owned) with weapons to defend itself FROM THE GOVERNMENT. US history is pretty clear on this. The second ammendment is clear on this. Lets use this for an example: If you were dropped on an island in the middle of no where, with nothing. Your first basic instinct is self preservation. Food, water, and shelter. If someone were to try and attack you, would you have the right to defend yourself? Or would you be required to wait for some "authority"? The answer is simple. Defend yourself with whatever means required. We don't all live 5 minutes from the police station. I feel like it is my DUTY to defend my family. That's why I have a concealed weapons permit. People shouldn't have to have a permit to defend themselves. People have been killing people long before there were guns. There is no dispute to that.
    In a society, and I'm not referring exclusively to that of America although that is the primary focus of the thread, rather all developed nations, where voter participation levels hover between fifty and sixty percent in federal elections and progressively lessen for state/provincial and municipal bodies I would find it ironic to physically arm citizens against the government. Without bloodshed, without an ugly struggle that suspends the progress of the majority of institutions, without tearing apart families and destroying property, more people could take a few minutes every few years and actually cast a ballot. For people to have the desire to fight a government that they effectively participated in putting into place is bewildering to me.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bubba13
    And now I've created a scene, but I'm going to go ahead and make a fool of myself and post this as I've already spent the time typing it up....
    I'll briefly touch on this, although I'm questioning if I should, I don't think you've created a scene at all, you've made very valid and good points and I'm glad you chose to post that response.

    Not in this thread exclusively, but in general, older and more conservative people seem to think that young liberal people are naive and that influences our decision making processes. That couldn't be farther from the truth though, we grew up in a different world than someone in their forties and as such our opinions are different, but that does not invalidate them.
         
        12-22-2011, 09:31 PM
      #217
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bubba13    
    This was the progression:







    The "nukes" thing was hyperbole, but easy to draw from rocket launchers, really. Bearkiller was saying far more than "we need our freedoms." He was, in effect, implying a physical revolution against the government should it encroach any more upon the individual's rights--or at least that's how I read the post. Not sure how else it could be read. Again, guns and war and anarchy. Hardly democracy; hardly realistic.

    Perhaps I'm making a big deal of this when it's not warranted (and I apologize, if so), but I simply would have thought you'd have known me better to interpret my posts in the way you have, thinking I needed a lecture on how America has deviated from the Founding Fathers' ideals and whatnot....I may be, in your eyes, a liberal and naive college student, but I'm not an closed-minded, history-illiterate idiot (and I know you aren't exactly calling me that, but my feelings are a bit bruised all the same). Your points are all fine and good, in other words, I'm just not sure why you felt the need to mention them at all except through a misinterpretation of what I've said. I'm hardly against personal rights (or tighter gun control), and I'm hardly against changing the governments' policies to grant more individual freedoms....

    And now I've created a scene, but I'm going to go ahead and make a fool of myself and post this as I've already spent the time typing it up....
    I don't think you're making a fool of yourself - you know how much respect I have for your reasoning ability and logic - and your opinion. Nonetheless, your baseline is far different than mine when it comes to assessing our freedoms. In 40 years you will be able to compare then with now and see what changes, for the good or bad, have transpired in your lifetime, but at this point in time it is mere conjecture. Where it might be a surprise to you that so many people are anti government right now, it comes as no surprise to me because I have seen government change from its constitutional duty to an omnipotent monster that dictates our daily life. If and when you open your vet clinic, you will be shocked at just how difficult it will be to comply with all the regulations, taxes, and paperwork with which you will be challenged.

    We go through cycles - liberal cycles, and conservative cycles...ebb and flow. But because liberal cycles increase the size and scope of government, and because government is the epitome of enertia, regardless of the cycles the movement is always in the liberal direction, meaning bigger and more intrusive government with corresponding losses of freedoms. There is no magic or radical right wing interpretation there - that is just the way things are.

    The issue today is that we have in the last few years crossed some kind of breaking point. I can't point to the exact time or exact circumstance that caused it, but somewhere along the line the government became a benefactor rather than a governor, thus creating a sense of entitlement that the government's purpose was to "take care" of us. That, of course, is not its purpose. The "general welfare" of the people is not intended to mean to put food on the table, pay the light bill, help with the house payment, provide an income, or provide big screen TV's, cell phones, or anything else.

    Because we have crossed that intangible line, there is currently a backlash, and in my mind rightfully so. But no, despite what radicals may say, violence is not the answer. We have a long tradition of peaceful successsion and I see no reason change cannot continue to be accomplished peacefully. In actual fact, the violence, and there may be violence at some point, is far more likely to come from those that feel entitled if and when their handouts are threatened or taken away or no longer possible, thanit is to come from the right. Look no farther than the riots in Europe or the "Wall Street" movement to see that...
         
        12-22-2011, 09:44 PM
      #218
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mind    
    Not in this thread exclusively, but in general, older and more conservative people seem to think that young liberal people are naive and that influences our decision making processes. That couldn't be farther from the truth though, we grew up in a different world than someone in their forties and as such our opinions are different, but that does not invalidate them.
    Naivity does not invalidate opinions, however it does make them naive opinions.

    Naivity is not restricted to to young people. We older folks are just as naive about contemporary social trends and philosophies that are the norm to young people as you young people are naive about what life was like 40 or 50 years ago, and just as I am naive about what life was like 150 years ago.

    There is nothing strange or offensive about social naivity...for the old or the young...it is what it is. The only way to avoid it is to be immortal and to have experienced life from the beginning...
         
        12-22-2011, 09:59 PM
      #219
    Banned
    I wouldn't be surprised if violence comes from either direction. Both sides have practically avowed it, if the crazy posts that show up on my Facebook feed are any indication. Radicals--of any kind--are dangerous and despicable. And I hope and pray it never comes to large scale violence or even a "civil war" of sorts....because that will set in motion a path of destruction that will end all semblance of the way of life we know....no hyperbole there.

    In other words, to bring us back full circle:

         
        12-22-2011, 10:40 PM
      #220
    Yearling
    Well guys, I surely hope it does not come to violence....my husband IS military after all, and it's the military that would suffer losses during any civil war or other violent uprisings.

    My issue is that I'm not sure voting is the answer. FFS, people seem to believe that we have only two political parties and vote accordingly! So now here's the choice: Dirty Liar #1 or Dirty Liar #2: NEITHER ONE OF THEM will accomplish half of the platform they campaign on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The current system is not working....all our industry is overseas, our economy is shot, and there are NO JOBS out there. We have no pride in American society really, and the one huge campaign issue despite this is....Abortion?! 0.o
    American society needs to collectively pull their heads out of the SAND and take a good look at what we have allowed our government to do...did I ever tell you guys that my husband (the Marine) orders office chairs, plain old office chairs for more than 5-6 *hundred* dollars each??? And he is limited to certain companies that have military contracts? Ever wonder where our tax money goes? Well my husband is sitting in a POS six hundred dollar office chair.

    When I was a little kid, they filled our heads with "America the Great!", and how we could be ANYTHING we wanted, and how awesome we are...now there are no jobs, people are desperate and the patriotism is GONE. I think that patriotism is about respect and pride, and we have lost our pride in our country....hell, how much was that tea tax we fought England over? I think that we suffer a lot more now and are just TOO COMPLACENT to do anything about it, even simply by refusing to elect corrupt idiots who we should know by now...are lying through their teeth while stabbing us in the back.

    /end rant.

    But seriously...something has to be done.... at what point do things start to change for the better?
    Druydess likes this.
         

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