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post #21 of 235 Old 11-11-2011, 12:29 PM
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I want one of the heritage breeds that are good egg layers as well as meat producers.

Auracanas or Orpingtons, as I've heard their roos aren't overly aggressive. The first time a roo comes after me, he'll be on the menu!

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post #22 of 235 Old 11-11-2011, 12:32 PM
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We have one buff orp that was an extra with our order, the rest are Red Stars. (huge eggs!) The buff is my daughter's pet, Blondie. That darn chicken sits in her lap to be loved on and follows her around like a lost puppy. I wasn't a big chicken person until we got them, they have been quite a surprise for me with their personalities.

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post #23 of 235 Old 11-11-2011, 12:37 PM
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I've heard that chickens can be very affectionate, and many people only have hens because they don't want to raise them for meat.

My plan is to get 3 hens and a roo, because I simply don't need a ton of meat or eggs just for myself. I do plan to give some of the processed chickens away to food pantries in my area, so I'll need to raise two or three broods a year.

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post #24 of 235 Old 11-11-2011, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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I have 4 red sex links and all of them are friendly about like a cat. They ignore you sometimes but are usually under your feet. My black sex links and buff orpingtons are all skittish. All about the same age and raised the same. The black sexlinks started laying first, though.

This, too, shall pass........
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post #25 of 235 Old 11-14-2011, 02:07 PM
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I wouldn't personally compare taking care of an animal with slaughtering it either. I think that a well-cared animal can be happy and most of times you can sense if the animal is happy or not. Tho also I'm carnivore and don't see problem with eating meat either, as far as I know that the animal has been raised in good conditions and slaughtered quickly and humanely. But I still think that there's difference between other 'use' and slaughtering.

Unluckily I'm not very able to choose organic meat/ small farm slaughterhouse meat at the moment. I still believe that there are also good intensive livestock farms there even sadly there are also too many bad ones too. That's great to hear about your plans SR, at least you know that your meat is ethically produced then.


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post #26 of 235 Old 11-14-2011, 03:38 PM
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Just thought I might share my personal reason/thoughts on being a vegetarian...

I have been a vegetarian nearly my whole life. When I first stopped eating meat I was only seven, and I really had no idea what it meant to be "vegetarian". I really just never liked or enjoyed the taste of meat. At first it was never "oh this came from an animal, I shouldn't eat it", I simply never liked how it tasted. Just like some people don't like chocolate. I don't think it was until I was into my early teens that I started to realize that I wasn't the only person in the world who didn't eat meat. That was also when I started to realize WHY people are vegetarians, how animals are treated before/during killing. I don't agree with it, but that is not why I became a vegetarian. Yes, I love animals to death and would never harm one. It's true that I don't agree with the way that things are done. However, I realize that is life. I move on. I don't eat meat because it just doesn't appeal to me. It really bothers me when people feel they need to cater to me because of this - like my boyfriend's mother's side of the family - all they can talk about at every family dinner is the fact that I don't eat meat. So what? You don't eat half your potatoes. I don't talk about that I just see it as "I don't like that food group" or "I don't eat chocolate" rather than "I'M A VEGETARIAN DON'T EAT MEAT AROUND ME EVER!!111!!" type of deal. I couldn't care less if people eat meat around me. So it really bothers me when it's the topic of every dinner or every get together. Does it even need to be brought up? Because I have never once seen it as a huge deal. I know there are vegetarians out there who are quite the extremists, and I don't think I agree with that. I eat what I want, you eat what you want
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post #27 of 235 Old 11-14-2011, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TaMMa89 View Post
I wouldn't personally compare taking care of an animal with slaughtering it either. I think that a well-cared animal can be happy and most of times you can sense if the animal is happy or not.

That's thinking pretty highly of yourself, saying you can A: make an animal happy based on human ideas B: thinking you can determine an animals happiness based on some "sense". Animals have different personalities just like humans. The fact that properties are usually fenced completely shoots a hole in the "happy animal" theory. They don't want to be contained any more than people want to be in prisons...........

This, too, shall pass........
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post #28 of 235 Old 11-14-2011, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bearkiller View Post
That's thinking pretty highly of yourself, saying you can A: make an animal happy based on human ideas B: thinking you can determine an animals happiness based on some "sense". Animals have different personalities just like humans. The fact that properties are usually fenced completely shoots a hole in the "happy animal" theory. They don't want to be contained any more than people want to be in prisons...........
You too are

Quote:
thinking you can determine an animals happiness based on some "sense"
When you state

Quote:
They don't want to be contained any more than people want to be in prisons..........
How exactly do YOU know that they don't like being contained? My kids have left my pasture gates open more times than I can count and my cows have yet to leave. Stand at the open gate and Moo at me because I am late with their grain.... yes. Actually wander out the gate? No.

My chickens are not fenced and they don't go anywhere either. Wander around visiting the pigs, goats and cows? Yes. Waddle their fat, feathery selves on down the road? No. They could leave at any time but yet every evening at dusk, there's 9 chickens snuggled in their house waiting for me to close the door. I bet they are really unhappy that I close them up so Mr Coyote can only look through the window at them because their lives would be so much happier if I left it open so he could eat them.
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post #29 of 235 Old 11-14-2011, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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How exactly do YOU know that they don't like being contained?

I think I covered that already. My statement about fences isn't defeated by your one example.

This, too, shall pass........
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post #30 of 235 Old 11-14-2011, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bearkiller View Post
That's thinking pretty highly of yourself, saying you can A: make an animal happy based on human ideas B: thinking you can determine an animals happiness based on some "sense". Animals have different personalities just like humans. The fact that properties are usually fenced completely shoots a hole in the "happy animal" theory. They don't want to be contained any more than people want to be in prisons...........
First, you are very much anthropomorphizing to assume that animals have some objective sense of "captive" versus "free" and would always choose the latter. You state that you can't subscribe human emotions to animals, yet here you are doing exactly that. But I'll cater to you for a moment: Many people do, in fact, prefer being in prisons to being in general society. There are many cases of this, but the example that sticks in my mind is the guy who intentionally went out and shot a postal worker, just because he knew that shooting/killing a federal employee is automatic life in prison. Seems his life was falling apart around him, his finances were in shambles, and he knew that in prison at least he would be protected and he could count on daily meals....

Animals, obviously, can't reason it out to this extent, but the end result is the same. Guaranteed food, protection, and safety or the very real possibilities of being eaten by a predator or starving to death. If they could rationalize the options, which do you think they would choose?

Fences are as much for protection as they are to keep them in. How many people do you know who let their dogs run free, but they never wander far? I know my dogs much prefer being "locked up" in the house than outside, even in good weather. They'll scratch at the door and whine to be let in. Most people call that "spoiled." :roll: And there have certainly been occasions when my horses have gotten loose on the neighbors' unfenced property, only to meader (or sometimes gallop) right back home and wait at the fence. Hell, when the weather's bad or night starts to fall, they're always lined up at the gate waiting to come in the barn, be "confined" to their jail cell stalls, eat their meals and sleep on their comfy deep bedding. No stall vices, no stereotypies, no signs that this lifestyle is remotely stressful for them.

As for animals being "happy," well, I just plain don't like that word. They do, of course, have emotions, but happy isn't one I think they experience too commonly, whether domestic or wild. I don't think most people spend a large portion of their lives being "happy," either. Let's try "content," instead. And yes, a student of the animal can absolutely determine an animal's quality of life and contentment based on health and behavior. It's not rocket science. And if there is any doubt, researchers can confirm the signs of emotional well-being by looking at physiological processes, brain chemicals, etc. And that's all emotions are, anyway--human or animal.

If an animal's basic needs are being met and their instincts are being catered to, yes, they will have a good quality of life.
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