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Vegetarian

This is a discussion on Vegetarian within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category

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        11-14-2011, 07:18 PM
      #31
    Weanling
    Again, with the exception to the rule. If you went to a prison and took a poll, how many people, do YOU think would rather be there than be free? I'd bet more than 99% would rather be free. I'd be SHOCKED if it was less than 95%. Although I hate humanizing animals, MOST animals leave when gates are left open. I never used the words "would always choose the latter". In fact, I used the word "usually". :) I have had critters over the years, including one right now, that I am certain wouldn't ever leave the yard, given the choice. I drew my conclusions based on my extensive experiences of chasing animals, mostly as a child. Haha
         
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        11-14-2011, 07:20 PM
      #32
    Weanling
    I agree with the what you said about emotions. Even when applied to humans. I've heard people say "she's so happy" or "he's such a happy person". In reality, those people are usually just as miserable as the rest of us(if not more). They just hide it better. LOL
         
        11-14-2011, 07:31 PM
      #33
    Banned
    When an animal wanders through an open gate, is it trying to escape to the wild (where it so desperately wishes to be), or is just ambling blindly with no further thought besides "the grass looks greener over here; maybe I'll go eat it"? Because for your argument, that is a very important distinction to make.

    And if horses wish so badly to return to the wild, why will a loose horse running on the highway approach the first stranger to offer grain and allow itself to be haltered and led back home?
         
        11-14-2011, 07:48 PM
      #34
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bearkiller    
    I think I covered that already. My statement about fences isn't defeated by your one example.
    You didn't cover anything, you just blindly stated

    Quote:
    They don't want to be contained any more than people want to be in prisons...........
    I didn't give a single example, I gave two which is far more than the zero which you provided to back up your claim.

    90% of the horses where I board escaped the other day. When my trainer and I returned from trailering my horse elsewhere, we discovered them running around the unfenced portion of her property. Did any of them leave the property? Nope and it wasn't because their friends were still *locked* up, ALL the horses were out but mine who was in the trailer. The whole herd could have taken off for the wild yonder, it's all open space around where I board. My trainer hopped out, opened the gate to the pasture and about had to run for it before she was trampled by 9 horses galloping on in. They didn't seem to have a desire to run free....
         
        11-14-2011, 08:20 PM
      #35
    Foal
    I was never a big meat eater. I always preferred veggies, beans, pasta, etc. even as a child. I ate meat because my Mom put it on my plate and I was expected to eat everything.

    I was a Vegetarian for 13 years and was the healthiest I've ever been and felt the best I've ever felt. DH almost died in a drunk driving wreck 8 years ago. I had no time or money to cook special meals for myself so I went back to eating some meat. I wasn't happy about it and didn't enjoy it.

    I've been slowly getting back to cooking veggie meals for myself over the last year.

    Besides the fact that I don't like meat and it's not very healthy, I don't like the thought that something has to die for me to eat when I can eat something else. Even if they're humanely treated, they want to live just like we do.

    I don't, however, see why people won't eat eggs, cheese, milk, butter, etc. since the animals are not harmed.
         
        11-14-2011, 08:23 PM
      #36
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kntry    
    I don't, however, see why people won't eat eggs, cheese, milk, butter, etc. since the animals are not harmed.
    Even though I do eat these things--for the sake of cost and convenience--I can't agree that these animals are not harmed. The egg and dairy industries are just plain awful in their inhumane treatment. I don't want to get into details unless you want me to (you can google for yourself), but suffice it to say that in many regards the meat industry is more humane and responsible in its treatment of animals than the egg and dairy industries.
         
        11-14-2011, 08:30 PM
      #37
    Green Broke
    Bit off topic with the imprisonment of people, but here is my two cents. I think many, if not most, people are "imprisoned" by society and they seem to go along with it somewhat contently. Many people would like to go on holidays but they cannot afford to, instead they have to work to live/feed their family/finance their lifestyle. The conditions of society imprison these people. It doesn't happen to everyone but if you really take a good look around you I think you are surprised by how many people are a slave to their lifestyle/society. I'm not saying its a bad thing, it just is.

    Theoretically these people could just up and leave pretty easily, but the majority of them would not be mentally capable of removing themselves from their sub-culture/community/whatever. Theoretically a horse could jump a fence and leave, almost any horse is capable of doing that, especially when you take into consideration open gates etc. But mentally they are bound to their herd, their land, their safety, their routine. Sure physical barriers keep them in but these aren't really that different from the cultural barriers that contain the rest of society.

    I look around me and I see so many people enslaved by the choices they make, everything looks peachy on the outside, but you look closer and see a complex web that people create. People are afraid to leave their safe world, and I think its like horses. Sure the thinking isn't as complex, but a horse won't usually leave its home property, its herd, because it's afraid, it knows its not safe. Very few "prey" animals will. Even most predators don't.

    Freedom is a rather shady concept, because its not just walls or fences that imprison people. If you look at horses, you could consider their main driving forces are food, herd and basic safety (survival). We give horses these things (well most people do). While we can not know if they are "happy" as mentioned earlier, as their basic and primary needs are met we can assume that are "content", at least as much as a horse can be.

    On eggs: Egg industry can be pretty horrific. I don't preach vegetarianism, or try not to, but I have called a few friends out on buying non-freerange eggs, mainly those who claim to be "animal lovers". Its a small choice that I think makes a big difference. Five years ago there would only be one free range egg brand in the supermarket, now half the section is filled with them, and I think almost a majority of people buy free range. I actually don't have a moral problem with eggs, like the people who have their own chickens who run around and are happy. My dad and his gf have some and they fuss over them like nothing else. Saying that though I really, really don't like chickens. People think because I don't eat animals I love them all, and while I don't despise them I really don't like chickens or cows. Chickens have creepy legs and beaks, and cows are just weird. Like someone tried to created a horse and totally screwed up. Still, I wouldn't wish either species harm.
         
        11-14-2011, 08:31 PM
      #38
    Foal
    No, I don't want to know all the details. I already know too much. I won't be able to sleep or think of anything else for days if I think about it too much.
         
        11-14-2011, 08:59 PM
      #39
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Delfina    
    You didn't cover anything, you just blindly stated



    I didn't give a single example, I gave two which is far more than the zero which you provided to back up your claim.

    90% of the horses where I board escaped the other day. When my trainer and I returned from trailering my horse elsewhere, we discovered them running around the unfenced portion of her property. Did any of them leave the property? Nope and it wasn't because their friends were still *locked* up, ALL the horses were out but mine who was in the trailer. The whole herd could have taken off for the wild yonder, it's all open space around where I board. My trainer hopped out, opened the gate to the pasture and about had to run for it before she was trampled by 9 horses galloping on in. They didn't seem to have a desire to run free....
    Okay... Here is what I think
         
        11-14-2011, 09:13 PM
      #40
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Delfina    
    You didn't cover anything, you just blindly stated



    I didn't give a single example, I gave two which is far more than the zero which you provided to back up your claim.

    90% of the horses where I board escaped the other day. When my trainer and I returned from trailering my horse elsewhere, we discovered them running around the unfenced portion of her property. Did any of them leave the property? Nope and it wasn't because their friends were still *locked* up, ALL the horses were out but mine who was in the trailer. The whole herd could have taken off for the wild yonder, it's all open space around where I board. My trainer hopped out, opened the gate to the pasture and about had to run for it before she was trampled by 9 horses galloping on in. They didn't seem to have a desire to run free....
    Sorry about my post above, I messed up


    Horses that have been domesticated only know one life. Its the world where they are locked up. If you take a domesticated horse, feed him, take care of him, and everything, he will not want to leave. This is his one and only life that he has ever known. Why would they run away? I know that when I open the gate for my horse to go out of his pasture to get some better grass, he doesn't run away. He eats contentedly and when he is done munching, he returns to his pasture.

    But a wild horse, who has only ever known freedom, would not like to be locked up. If he has only ever known freedom, and you captured him, kept him for a week, and opened the pasture gate, he would bolt. He would run with the wind.

    To each his own.

    A domesticated horse likes living with people, being taken care of, but a wild horse, would want to run free.
         

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