Very angry vent/rant - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 05-02-2013, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: central Illinois
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Angry Very angry vent/rant

When is a road not a road?.........

There is a gravel road 50 feet wide, that would be equivalent to larger than a 3 lane road. People have been driving on that road for many years. It was used as haulage road for the big huge trucks that haul coal. The road is wide enough that two of those trucks could pass each other on the road.

Now all of a sudden, a guy buys land on one side of that road, and wants to make that road into a blacktop road.
Supposedly the road that has been used for likely 30-40-50 years, is not the *real* road. Somehow over the past 30-40-50 years as those big huge trucks used the road, it 'slid' over. Any way that is what we are being told. The road that has been the road for the past 30-40-30 years is not really the road.

When we looked at this land to buy it, the realtor guy had trouble finding the land, because there were no posts put up showing the lay out of the land and it's boundaries. He called back to the realty office and spoke to the person who listed the land, and she told him where it was located. The two realtor signs, next to the road. He got out with my husband and showed him the layout - the land started where the grass and road met (actually we would own to the middle of the road) and where it went to on the north, west, and south. We purchased the land. We put a home on the land, a barn, horses, goats, etc. We had a fence built around the pasture for the animals, and left room between the fence and road for easement.

NOW all of a sudden, the man who bought land across from us and wants to blacktop the very very very wide road (wide enough it would be bigger than a 3 lane road) has said that we do *not* own the land we think we do because the road that has been the road for a very very long time (the coal mine quit using it about 25 years ago or longer) that was used by the coal mine that originally owned the land here, is not really "the road". Even though the coal mine used it for generations, and after the coal mine quit using it, it was used as a country road for general vehicle traffic and as the road for the few homes that is out here.

Instead of using the over 3 lane wide road, he wants to use what was supposed to initially be 'the road'. Way back about close to 50 years ago. To do that, we have to move the fence around the pasture, and lose a bunch of what we thought was our front yard. We thought it was our land because that is how it was shown to us and there were no posts showing the boundary lines.

The one neighbor who lives out here, who's wife was the listing realtor for the land we purchased, said there are surveyor posts. Finally found about 6 inches deep in the ground, covered up by the dirt and all kinds of stuff. Not visible, but rather hidden by dirt.

So... instead of using the existing 50 + foot wide, more than 3 lanes wide road, they want to dig up land that has been unused for likely a minimum of 30 years, and put in ditches on each side of it, and black top all that newly dug up land. NOT the road that is currently there, would be wide enough to dig a ditch on each side of it, even have room for pulling to side of road if flat tire or such, and also still have enough room for a nice size two lane road. All that could be done on the existing road way that is being used. But **no** they want to leave all that and not use it. They want to cause us to spend wads of money we DO NOT have. Hello! $2,100 a month to live on, and we are supposed to have a bunch of fencing moved.

Ummm, does this sound stupid or what?!?!? I just do not get it. Why not use that huge road that is already there?
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post #2 of 23 Old 05-02-2013, 08:11 PM
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cariboo, British Columbia
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If he does own it, he can do as he pleases. I would get the land surveyed again and make sure! I bought a rental property last year, there is the neighbors' driveway running through the front of this place, with no easement. We had the land surveyed and pegged, yes, their driveway is our land. We asked them if they wanted to buy an easement for the driveway, no they didn't. They kept using the driveway, instead of their other driveway which is pretty steep, so my husband hauled his bulldozer other there and took out the driveway. You don't own it, you don't pay, you don't use it.
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post #3 of 23 Old 05-02-2013, 08:19 PM
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Oregon
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Definitely get it surveyed as lines kind of blur/disappear over time and often were wrong to begin with. My Grandfather deeded 25ft to a neighbor once they found out everybodies line was off. He did this to end the barrage of every land owner moving their property lines 25ft.
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post #4 of 23 Old 05-02-2013, 09:01 PM
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Location: Ontario
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A fellow bo't a nice long river lot and shared the driveway with the neighbor. Neighbor decided the fellow had to build his own driveway. What he didn't know was that the survey proved the entire driveway was the new fellow's who now demanded the neighbor build his own driveway and get his garage off his property.
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post #5 of 23 Old 05-02-2013, 09:23 PM
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Have your property surveyed. The owner of the land can do whatever they'd like.... so if you don't own what you think you do, you are out of luck.

NEVER put up structures, roads, fencing, etc... without knowing exactly where your property boundaries are.
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post #6 of 23 Old 05-03-2013, 11:53 AM
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Location: Oregon
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BTW, just finished reading an autobiography written by one of my ancestors who did a lot of surveying work in the 1800's around Oregon and some of Idaho. He mentioned two main reasons for survey lines to be off. First of all they used a 30 ft measured length of chain to make their survey lines and both reasons are due to that chain.

-Surveyor got lazy because moving that chain is a lot of work and consumes a lot of time. So instead of measuring things off properly they would pace off the distance, this of course introduced a ton of error. FYI, they got paid by the job so pacing off the distance meant making more money.

-The chain was affixed with a stake every move. Pull the chain to much and you pull the stake some. For each measure the movement is not much, add it up over a mile and you've introduced quite a error.
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post #7 of 23 Old 05-03-2013, 12:31 PM
Green Broke
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"They want to cause us to spend wads of money we DO NOT have. Hello! $2,100 a month to live on, and we are supposed to have a bunch of fencing moved"

Are you going to have to pay money for all of this to happen?

Horses are scared of two things... Things that move and things that don't.
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post #8 of 23 Old 05-03-2013, 12:50 PM
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Definatly have it surveyed, it's really not that expensive in the big picture. It will save a lot of headaches in the future. Check with your county land registar for who they recomend.

Also look for a certified survey map for the surrounding the properties. Usually these can be found with the Register of Deeds.

"Just because I don't do things your way, doesn't mean I don't have a clue"
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post #9 of 23 Old 05-03-2013, 11:37 PM
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Well, if it were me...I would at least consult w a lawyer (one that specializes in easements, preferably) before I took my fences down.
I am guessing you went through a title company when you purchased it and you or they recorded the purchase w some sort of legal conveyance, no?

There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it.
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post #10 of 23 Old 05-04-2013, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by busysmurf View Post
Definatly have it surveyed, it's really not that expensive in the big picture. It will save a lot of headaches in the future. Check with your county land registar for who they recomend.

Also look for a certified survey map for the surrounding the properties. Usually these can be found with the Register of Deeds.
^^ This.

Get a copy of the plat from your county and have it surveyed.

After that, if there is any dispute, you'll typically need a lawyer. If you have a title insurance policy, it may help you if you suffer any loss.

Your situation is not unusual. As Darrin mentioned, the vast majority of areas in the US historically had very poor land record keeping. I've seen many properties where the legal description included references to old trees, large rocks, and creeks as boundaries that change or disappear over time.

On the sixth day, God created the Quarter Horse.
On the seventh day, he Painted the good ones.
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