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a very difficult decision

This is a discussion on a very difficult decision within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category
  • Abused miniature pinscher
  • Chicaucas

 
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    06-09-2011, 02:53 AM
  #21
Foal
My dog, Baxter is the same way, granted being such a small dog, he's a bit easier to "handle" in situations. (He's a Chihuahua/miniature pinscher mix)


He is EXTREMELY fear aggressive, especially towards strangers. He was very abused when I got him (he's not even a year old yet!). I know exactly what situation he came from though, I know his exact past from the time he was 8 weeks old, so this could be different for you.

Baxter, I had taken to obedient school. It helped him alot actually. I'm more of a horse trainer than a dog trainer, and didn't have any idea how to handle a dog with behavioural problems, and that's why I took him.

Well anyways, taking him out alot, keeping him close at all times on his harness/leash, and reprimanding him and showing dominance right away in a "Scarey" situation helped him alot. He's gotten alot better around strangers when he's "corrected" from his fearfully aggressive behaviour. I was told to put him down by several people, and I refused to. He's become my best friend lately, even as I type this he is sitting on my shoulder, yes. My shoulder. Lol.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is your dog needs alot of socialization, a dominate, but calm hand, and he needs this regularly and consistently. He might also need a job and trained to do his job properly. His breed was bred for guarding livestock? Try to train him for that, granted not until you're comfortable enough that he wouldn't lash out at your livestock.

In short, he needs socialization (imo), a calm assertive hand, consistency, and potentially a job.

My recommendation for socializing him since you're afraid he'll bite, is definitely keep him muzzled, but have various friends that would agree to come out and help, and gradually work up to taking him out on walks in lowly populated areas and work your way up. He may never be fully trustworthy, but eventually, he will be trustworthy enough that you can actually not have to consider putting him down.


Just wanted to add that Im stressing this is from my own personal experience with my dog, and obviously I don't know you're dog as well as you, but just stating what has helped and IS helping with my dog.
     
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    06-09-2011, 07:53 AM
  #22
Foal
!!!!!!!!

What are you doing buying a dog whos breed you know nothing of !!????

I and my family have owned these dogs whole my life ( they are mostly known as Caucasus shepards). They are great dogs but they are not family dogs like westies- they are used to fight off bears,wolves etc on livestock in Eastern Europe or protect humans from wolves.

I mean seriously..no offence but how could you have bought a dog without doing research first? They are so great dogs and so loyal, but for NOT with people small children around.

They have to be played with special suit every day- where person puts padded suit on and the dog can practice its fighting on persons hand without injuring.

I can't believe the dog would be put down because of how it was created by nature.


Please stick to chicaucas or yorkshires if you don't know anything about that breed- I can't stand when an animal suffers because of owners brain farts.
     
    06-09-2011, 08:14 AM
  #23
Green Broke
I'm sorry but I think that was incredibly rude^^^

Make an account to just say that. I'm sorry about the situation you are in OP we nearly had a similar dilema recently. I realise how hard it would be but I'm sure you will make the right decision.
     
    06-09-2011, 08:49 AM
  #24
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajesticSpirit    
Look In to finding a rescue that has time to work with him. I think it would be unfair to not give him a chance at living out his life happily...7 is young.
You knew the dog was aggressive when you got him.
I understand your feelings, but I honestly feel that I’ve given him five years. Indeed, we did know that he was aggressive when we got him. We’ve been taking extreme precautions for five years, but accidents CONTINUE to happen. Nothing is foolproof. If I knew I could give him to someone that would somehow have him even more contained that we already do, I might consider it. But honestly: when my main concern with him is the risk he poses to people, why would I transfer that risk to a new situation? Then, once again, I am morally responsible for any discrepancies on his new owner’s part and the injuries that could result.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkBucephalus    
My dog, Baxter is the same way, granted being such a small dog, he's a bit easier to "handle" in situations. (He's a Chihuahua/miniature pinscher mix)


He is EXTREMELY fear aggressive, especially towards strangers. He was very abused when I got him (he's not even a year old yet!). I know exactly what situation he came from though, I know his exact past from the time he was 8 weeks old, so this could be different for you.

Baxter, I had taken to obedient school. It helped him alot actually. I'm more of a horse trainer than a dog trainer, and didn't have any idea how to handle a dog with behavioural problems, and that's why I took him.

Well anyways, taking him out alot, keeping him close at all times on his harness/leash, and reprimanding him and showing dominance right away in a "Scarey" situation helped him alot. He's gotten alot better around strangers when he's "corrected" from his fearfully aggressive behaviour. I was told to put him down by several people, and I refused to. He's become my best friend lately, even as I type this he is sitting on my shoulder, yes. My shoulder. Lol.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is your dog needs alot of socialization, a dominate, but calm hand, and he needs this regularly and consistently. He might also need a job and trained to do his job properly. His breed was bred for guarding livestock? Try to train him for that, granted not until you're comfortable enough that he wouldn't lash out at your livestock.

In short, he needs socialization (imo), a calm assertive hand, consistency, and potentially a job.

My recommendation for socializing him since you're afraid he'll bite, is definitely keep him muzzled, but have various friends that would agree to come out and help, and gradually work up to taking him out on walks in lowly populated areas and work your way up. He may never be fully trustworthy, but eventually, he will be trustworthy enough that you can actually not have to consider putting him down.


Just wanted to add that Im stressing this is from my own personal experience with my dog, and obviously I don't know you're dog as well as you, but just stating what has helped and IS helping with my dog.
Thanks for your story. I'm glad things are going well with your little guy. I think Chui’s situation is a bit different. From what I can gather from his puppyhood he was socialized. He used to run in dog parks when he was young. He was a typical suburban dog, and then he bit someone in their home. I can walk Chui through a city and he is afraid but will not growl or lunge (for the most part). He is much less aggressive when away from what he considers to be his guarding area. That’s not to say he’s never showed aggression, but they are much less frequent.


I like your idea about trying to introduce him to people. We have successfully introduced exactly four new people into his group of people in the five years we’ve had him. Our farm gets a lot of people traffic through: guests, cottagers, customers. We have tried to introduce others and it has been unsuccessful, or at least inconsistent enough I wouldn’t trust him unmuzzled.

As to introducing him to the livestock…we did try this when we first got him. He has always had great fear for them. He can see livestock most of the time from his kennel, and comes to the barn muzzled now and then, so he has been exposed for his whole time here. At his age, even at 2, he is beyond being taught to be a guardian dog. Sheep herd guards are raised in a flock from pups.

He is obedience trained. Other than this, I can’t think of what job we could give him. :(


Quote:
Originally Posted by Belice    
!!!!!!!!

What are you doing buying a dog whos breed you know nothing of !!????

I and my family have owned these dogs whole my life ( they are mostly known as Caucasus shepards). They are great dogs but they are not family dogs like westies- they are used to fight off bears,wolves etc on livestock in Eastern Europe or protect humans from wolves.

I mean seriously..no offence but how could you have bought a dog without doing research first? They are so great dogs and so loyal, but for NOT with people small children around.

They have to be played with special suit every day- where person puts padded suit on and the dog can practice its fighting on persons hand without injuring.

I can't believe the dog would be put down because of how it was created by nature.


Please stick to chicaucas or yorkshires if you don't know anything about that breed- I can't stand when an animal suffers because of owners brain farts.
Well, Belice. First off, the Sarplaninac and the Caucasus Shepherd are two different breeds of dog. Bred for similar purposes, but different.

Secondly, I did not buy this dog. I adopted him from a home that was going to put him down at aged 2 because of his biting. I researched the breed before I agreed to take him. I knew he was aggressive. That is hardly taking on a “dog I knew nothing of.”

We do not have small children in the house.

Putting on a padded suit: you want me to put a friend at risk and allow my dog to “practice attacking” someone? What if he doesn’t bite their hand? What if he knocks them down and does serious damage? I do not want an attack dog. Sadly, this is what I have.

In terms of “created by nature” from the research I’ve done, though Sarplaninacs are bred to guard and protect, Chui is more aggressive than the breed standard. I have spoken to a couple of breeders and they both say that “Shars” (as they are called) are wary of strangers, not necessarily instant-attackers. I don’t know where Chui’s issues stem from but he is more than mildly aggressive, which I thought when getting him.

I understand your indignation, I really do. It bothers me too when people dive headlong into owning something they have not researched and know nothing about properly caring for, whether that be a horse, livestock, or the wrong breed of dog. But please do not insult me and say I should stick to “chicaucas or Yorkshires” (Chicaucas, I assume you mean Chihuahuas?). At least do me the service of fully reading my posts before jumping in with your misguided opinion of me. I have never owned a small dog in my life, nor am I a city-dwelling shrinking violet. I have done the best I know to accommodate this dog and give him a wonderful life. I am having trouble thinking about the future and not seeing something else happening as a result of his aggression.

I suppose I could just leave him to live in his kennel for the rest of his life, barricaded and locked away so he can’t hurt anyone. But I don’t think that’s very fair for him. Already, he is much more restricted than our other dog: he cannot run free, or walk without being leashed and muzzled. I like to think he is happy, but I don’t know if he is as happy as he could be.
     
    06-09-2011, 09:32 AM
  #25
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by apachewhitesox    
I'm sorry but I think that was incredibly rude^^^

Make an account to just say that. I'm sorry about the situation you are in OP we nearly had a similar dilema recently. I realise how hard it would be but I'm sure you will make the right decision.
Yes I made an account just to say that because I find people who buy a puppy without doing any research into the breed lightly said foolish.

Its an animal and there is no way that the dog deserves to be put down because of its owners foolishness.
     
    06-09-2011, 09:34 AM
  #26
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belice    
Yes I made an account just to say that because I find people who buy a puppy without doing any research into the breed lightly said foolish.

Its an animal and there is no way that the dog deserves to be put down because of its owners foolishness.
.....and you continue to ignore my posts. O_o
     
    06-09-2011, 09:39 AM
  #27
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belice    
Yes I made an account just to say that because I find people who buy a puppy without doing any research into the breed lightly said foolish.

Its an animal and there is no way that the dog deserves to be put down because of its owners foolishness.
If you care to take the time and read previous posts you will notice they did research and didn't take this on lightly but over time have found that what they could provide simply does not appear to be enough to keep everybody safe.
     

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