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What do you believe you are eating? What is food to you? Is it important?

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  • Healthy eating fanatics conspiracy

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    01-19-2013, 11:51 AM
  #31
Super Moderator
[QUOTE=EquineOpus;1850768]
Those of you who have a vege garden, who save seeds and grow things from cuttings......do you know that you are actually breaking the law in 95% of the case?

Its is RARE to find a seed, or a plant with genetics that are not, quite literally 'owned' by someone else. A company that has the rights to these genetics. Technically, you should be paying royalties to the company that owns the genetics for your tomato plant every time you eat the food. These laws are being implemented in many countries already, with similar techniques to Monsanto. This is another reason why people cannot afford to feed themselves in many cases. What Monsanto is doing is not new or special...they are just more brash, and more confident about it.

Technically, if you are caught with seed, on your property - that Monsanto has the genetic license to, you are stealing.

Recently, within the first season of GM canola being allowed in Western Australia an organic farmer within our state lost his Organic license, as his neighbor cropped with GM canola. This canola contaminated his crops, and not only did he loose his Organic certification that he had spend thousands on over the years, and 20 years working towards - he was 'fined, billed, and hunted for the royalties from Monsanto, for the having unlicensed seed on his property.

QUOTE]
So much of this seems to be a dig at Monsanto and GM crops that I'm getting suspicious
All the horror sci fi stories of GM crops are totally unfounded and based on ignorance of what GM actually is. None of the DNA is synthetic - its naturally occuring in the plant they are using to 'cross breed' and will already be part of something we eat on a regular basis
In the case of 'round up' ready - it means that the whole crop can be sprayed with glyphosate which is a really safe product to kill weeds without killing the crop. Most of the problem lies with the organic lobby who see the actual seed as non organic even though its actually just resistant to Roundup. The actual soil would not be contaminated either
In the case of that farmer his crop would have still been sellable as non organic with little to no loss.
The reason that clean up would have been done would have been to prevent hysteria from people who insist on believing all the crap they get fed by idiots in the media that GM crops are going to produce 3 eyed 8 legged green monsters.
I can't find any evidence that Monsanto would have taken action against him for something that I assume happened through pollination by insects or accidental spillage by the people using the GM seed
I also can't find anything that says that anyone has ever been fined for using seeds from a plant they grew from purchased seeds to grow new plants from or from taking cuttings from their own plants or anyone elses with permission from them. People have been doing this for centuries
     
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    01-19-2013, 01:37 PM
  #32
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
I also can't find anything that says that anyone has ever been fined for using seeds from a plant they grew from purchased seeds to grow new plants from or from taking cuttings from their own plants or anyone elses with permission from them. People have been doing this for centuries
It would be difficult to enforce such a law. Except for those genetically engineered plants that are also designed not to produce seeds or to produce sterile seeds, all plants are going to drop seeds and you will get "volunteers" the following year. Furthermore, If you buy the seeds, they become your personal property - at least in this country I doubt if any court in the land would convict someone that harvests seeds from their own personal property - patent or no patent. That would be like being able to be prosecuted for breeding your colt that you purchased from a top breeder...
     
    01-19-2013, 01:54 PM
  #33
Trained
Ohhh don't get me started!

First off I can't stand the government, large food corps, large farmers, and all the chains that make them possible. I do recognize the need for these things but give me a break. I have family on the Mississippi who get a check each year NOT to farm their naturally rich land. The entire ethanol debacle makes me want to pull my hair out. The lobbyists in DC from the ag industry and the USDA... They can all kiss mine too Lockwood!

We are a bunch of sick hypocrites taking good food out of the market to fuel and break down our vehicles, we are sending billions upon billions of aid to rank gov's and then manipulating our market, and suppressing our food supply. We make healthy, disease resistant, beneficial crops illegal and support ones that are not AND import billions of dollars of said crops from other countries. I understand the need for pesticides and fertilizers, but there are other options and farms that are making headway despite the bureaucracy in DC. We allow important crops to become so genetically modified that they are no longer a fraction of what they used to be and now are virtually poisonous to our systems. WHAT GIVES!

My FIL is a former USDA inspector... He will not touch chicken. I used to live across the street from a chicken plant, I too will not touch mass commercially raised poultry. If I could only tell you the tales from the inside, you would be sick. But it's ok, it's safe, nothing to worry about here...

I too am an ingredient junkie. The amount of sugar and salt pumped into almost EVERY product makes me want to scream. Sugar feeds cancer. Period end of story. Salt causes hypertension, high blood pressure, yet you can hardly find a meat product sold without it being in a "solution".... But that's safe! Go ahead, eat it.

I am trying to do my best to feed our family. We organic garden, our red meat is 80% hunted venison, fish from fresh spring fed ponds, raise our own eggs and the hens are 80% free range fed, and I am aspiring to do more. Whoever says people in urban areas can't supply their own food themselves is wrong. When I lived in a DT apartment I raised three egg hens inside. I grew sprouts and micro greens, and shopped small local organic farmers. It would surprise people how little work and effort it takes to put a fresh safe meal on the table.

I have more to do but at least I am trying.
     
    01-20-2013, 08:22 PM
  #34
Showing
If someone manufactures it, I don't eat it. I try to stick with frozen veggies if my garden doesn't produce enough. Fruits scare me as one summer I worked in an orchard and our hands often needed washing because of the pesticides used. More and more I am getting into fermented foods and beverages for their probiotics. For everything that sickens the system we have to help it as best we can.
Lockwood likes this.
     
    01-21-2013, 01:35 AM
  #35
Foal
I think you will find Jaydee that the general worry people have with GM Canola is exactly what you pointed out, that this crop is RESISTENT to a safe, readily available chemical. Glyphosate. Its not that it is, GM, it is what GM enables in that plant.

So to control it, it requires the use of highly toxic, resistant chemical.

The issue people have with GM canola, is Monsanto's behavior, at feel thing have the RIGHTS to take away common freedoms.

I don't support organic - I think it is illogical. But this man should NOT have had to experience the consequences of his neighbor choices.

In regards to you feeling 'suspicious'...

I'm really not sure what you were getting at their? What are you feeling suspicious about? If you think are feeling suspicious that I have an invested interests in what I am talking about......well heck! I do. As I eat

I'm not focusing any of this specifically towards Monsanto, portions of this video do. I'm talking about basic rights for a human to eat. I don't want to get to a stage where the Vege garden I have, and collect seed from will be illegal - and by maintaining this opportunity, I will have to sign up to a Royalties payment.

These law governing genetic ownership of common food plants EXSIST. For these law to be passed, a good number of powerful people deemed it acceptable. All it takes is Greed in the right place, at the right time where the Law supports the behavior......at this stage - we are just waiting for greed.

It doesn't matter anyway Jaydee - I don't want to change you. You can eat, and theirfore support whatever you want.

But for those who choose to see forward, and want to make changes - this will expose them to a step further towards reality.

Farmers don't enter into farming to be a part of a non for profit club, they do it to survive.

At this point, their is very little left that they can to to actually get ahead.

Less Farmers = less food.
     
    01-21-2013, 02:50 AM
  #36
Started
To be honest, I don't have a lot of issues with large-scale farming, so long as it isn't of the battery type. Modifying crops (genetically or otherwise) to increase quality and quantity of produce has been done for thousands of years and, while of course there is some negative impact, these quantities are required to provide for a population of 7 billion.

I do, however, have a few issues with the way that food is treated today:

1) I am greatly upset by the wastefulness I see on a daily basis, when there are millions of people in the world who are going hungry (and not just in third world countries either). The scale and efficiency of modern food production should have all but eradicated famine but unfortunately it hasn't.

2) On a related point, I dislike the idea of GM not for the dangers that people fear but because it will almost certainly result in large corporations patenting produce so that no one else can produce it, allowing them to control the market and driving up food prices, much like what has happened in the pharmaceutical industry. It's bad enough that many fruits and vegetables are now produced that are deliberately infertile.

3) Corporations are, by nature, very shortsighted, and I am concerned that a basic necessity such as food would be controlled by a small monopoly of companies that are often more interested in the bottom line in the next quarterly report than the long-term effects of what they do (despite the fact that these effects will have negative impact on their share price in the future - see overfishing).

4) The fact that decent food (fresh fruit, vegetables and meat) are becoming increasingly more difficult to afford for low-income families, while heavily processed, unhealthy fast foods are still affordable - driving a new form of malnutrition in the developed world that doesn't involve skeletal kids but plump, diabetic and seriously undernourished (in all the important areas) children. It is ridiculous that we can produce salty, sugary, fatty processed foods, plate them up and serve them in a diner and charge less than what it costs to buy a bit of meat and some veg to cook a meal at home.

5) The fact that many in the current generation of kids don't actually know where most foods come from, and some don't even know what they're called. This can be easily rectified through the education system - allowing kids to go home and educate their parents.

So basically, my solutions:
- More diversification of the food market - prevention of mergers that reduce competition, for a start.
- Strict limits on the price of certain "essential" foodstuffs (bread, milk and simple greens such as lettuce, spinach and legumes being the highest)
- Better education around agriculture and food in schools. Everyone should know how to cook cheap, healthy family meals.
Wallaby, FlyGap, Lockwood and 3 others like this.
     
    01-21-2013, 09:21 AM
  #37
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilHorseOfDoom    
4) The fact that decent food (fresh fruit, vegetables and meat) are becoming increasingly more difficult to afford for low-income families, while heavily processed, unhealthy fast foods are still affordable - driving a new form of malnutrition in the developed world that doesn't involve skeletal kids but plump, diabetic and seriously undernourished (in all the important areas) children. It is ridiculous that we can produce salty, sugary, fatty processed foods, plate them up and serve them in a diner and charge less than what it costs to buy a bit of meat and some veg to cook a meal at home.

5) The fact that many in the current generation of kids don't actually know where most foods come from, and some don't even know what they're called. This can be easily rectified through the education system - allowing kids to go home and educate their parents.
LIKE
Very much!
     
    01-21-2013, 10:32 AM
  #38
Super Moderator
[QUOTE=EquineOpus;1853623]I think you will find Jaydee that the general worry people have with GM Canola is exactly what you pointed out, that this crop is RESISTENT to a safe, readily available chemical. Glyphosate. Its not that it is, GM, it is what GM enables in that plant.

So to control it, it requires the use of highly toxic, resistant chemical.

The issue people have with GM canola, is Monsanto's behavior, at feel thing have the RIGHTS to take away common freedoms.


These law governing genetic ownership of common food plants EXSIST. For these law to be passed, a good number of powerful people deemed it acceptable. All it takes is Greed in the right place, at the right time where the Law supports the behavior......at this stage - we are just waiting for greed.

GM doesnt work by using a highly toxic chemical - this just illustrates how people misunderstand the concept. Glyphosate (as In Roundup) is extremely safe and efficient in controlling grass weeds so can't be used in crops that come under that category so GM seeds are developed by crossing DNA from plants that arent affected by that chemical and the new hybrid plants are now resistant to it
The industry gripe against Monsanto is that they own the rights to Glyphosate as it was their 'invention' and it increases its sales. The first seeds were implanted in a way that they plants would not produce fertile seeds so farmers couldnt retain for replanting - objections put a stop to this
No amount of greed will ever pass a law that can control who 'owns' seeds from plants grown by an individual - its is simply not possible to implement anything like that - can you imagine the costs of having 'seed police' to go around the millions and millions of homes and farms where people grow from seed. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous and comes into the realms of Crazy Conspiracy Theories
The most people who do buy convenience food are the people who don't have the time to cook from scratch or are too lazy to do it. Nothing is going to change that. Many women now have full time jobs and a family - they have to prioritise. Many of us here have the knowledge to grow our own and raise animals but we're living in a world where an increasing number of the population live in crowded towns and cities - they wouldnt know one end of a garden fork from another - and more to the point - they don't want too.
Another thing to consider it that global food marketing is a vital industry in many countries, without it we would be stepping back to the times when people didnt know what bananas, pineapples, kiwi fruits, pomegramites etc were. Many of fresh fruit and veggies that we take for granted won't grow at all in some places so affordable food and widescale distribution is vital to the worlds health and to the economy and without large scale farming all of this simply wouldn't be able to happen
There is no way back to the 'good old days' - unless you massively reduce the population in some way
One of the reasons we see more cancer is because we live longer because we are actually much healthier than we used to be.
I wonder how many of the healthy eating fanatics in the world of Celebs etc inject their faces with Botox - one of the most lethal toxins out there and one chemical that was banned for use on crops is still commonly used to kill head lice on kids
     
    01-21-2013, 11:37 AM
  #39
Trained
1 - I prefer preservatives to botulism.

2 - Been eating chicken for over 50 years. Other than a big gut, it doesn't seem to have harmed me much. I try to remember what the Taiwanese used to tell my Mom when we lived there and she had to eat native food...don't ask, don't think, just eat.

3 - It is entirely possible for the poor to eat healthy in the US, if they want to. You can buy dried beans and rice and cook your own, as I did when I didn't have money. No one forces someone on food stamps to stuff themselves into gross obesity. The last woman I saw using food stamps in the store bare fit in the checkout lane. Her teen son didn't - he had to go around. And for the record, there were no dried beans in their basket, although the store had them and they are cheap. Lots of ice cream, though...

4 - At a time obesity is rampant in the US, access to food isn't the problem. People stuffing their faces with stuff they like and not moving much is the problem. My belly isn't the fault of US agriculture. I eat too many chips, too much pizza, and have a fondness for ice cream. I gain weight because of ME, not because of Big Business.

5 - I've lived in places like the Philippines and Afghanistan. I don't envy the average person in either country their food choices...

6 - Everyone has enough time to cook using a crock pot. Scrambling some eggs and tossing in rice doesn't take much time, either. Frozen veggies cook fast. Soaking beans for 24 hours doesn't require more than a couple of minutes of actual effort. People eat fast food from laziness, not from lack of time.
Speed Racer likes this.
     
    01-21-2013, 11:44 AM
  #40
Trained
Guess I'll add that I gained weight after I hurt my back because I kept eating as if I was still running 5 miles/day. My waistline cannot be blamed on 'pink slime' or Tyson chicken...
Speed Racer likes this.
     

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