What's worse a trainer that is ineffective or one that abuses?

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What's worse a trainer that is ineffective or one that abuses?

This is a discussion on What's worse a trainer that is ineffective or one that abuses? within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category

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    02-02-2011, 02:26 PM
What's worse a trainer that is ineffective or one that abuses?

I've hired or tried out trainers for different reasons over the years and certainly have had my share of stupid. What do you think? Is it more damaging for a trainer to come out and be ineffective with your horse or is it more damaging for someone ignorant to come and be confrontational and abusive with your horse? What do you think is worse for you the client? What do you think is worse for the horse?
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    02-02-2011, 03:11 PM
You would have to define or give an example of what you say is "ineffective" and "abuse".

There cannot be an exact set schedule or time line for a horse to learn something. Example: Just because your horse wasn't executing perfect roll backs in the first 10 rides, does not make the trainer ineffective.

Using the same example - in some situations spurs can be deemed abusive while others see them as training aids.
    02-02-2011, 03:16 PM
MLS I agree.

I guess I'll leave that to you to define - so please continue.
    02-02-2011, 03:21 PM
I am unable to help.

The only outside trainers I use are cutting trainers. I raise and start my own horses so I "know" them as far as physical ability and mental soundness. At 30 days we evaluated the colt to see if the potential was there or not. I only used trainers who had won $ in the cutting pen - in open and futurity classes. The trainers also have the same basic values and ethics that I do.
    02-02-2011, 03:38 PM
Green Broke
Well, to be honest I have a reasonably strict idea of what constitutes abuse. So for me abuse means something that is physically or mentally detrimental to the animal and is executed for no reason other than to cause harm intentionally.

What a lot of what people may call 'abusive' I am hesitant to put into that catagory.

Which means for me it is a no-brainer - abuse is far worse than ineffectiveness.

But riddle me this LovedOne, can you think of a situation where ineffectiveness WOULD be worse than abuse, without being some form of abuse itself?
    02-02-2011, 06:33 PM
I don't know if ineffectiveness is a form of abuse .... but nope I can't say that I can think of anything that is worse than abusive training technique. I think that most of the people out there are not deliberately abusing but where I live there is quite a lot of ignorance when it comes to teaching horses. So I just thought I would put it out there and see what people came up with.

I know someone who is good on the ground but not very good in the saddle. She's too strong on the ground and too weak in the saddle. She causes problems because the horse will lose confidence and also gain some dominance.

But then I know of someone else who starts horses here and he is quite abusive and actually "drags" them through the trails with chains around their noses while riding another horse with a roping saddle.

So in this case I would say that starting a horse out with chains and dragging is something they may never get over but having someone get on and cause a few problems is not a big deal.
    02-02-2011, 06:34 PM
Nobody has such stories?
    02-02-2011, 06:44 PM
I've gotten several horses from people that have handled thier horses so ineffectively that the horse was abusing them. If they had seen what I had to do to turn the horse around and get it respectful and responsive again then they would have probably thought it was abusive. When they got the horse back it was much better mannered and they thought it was a miracle.
    02-02-2011, 06:49 PM
Obviously abusing a horse would be worst. What I would consider abuse is hitting, or anything that would hurt the horses mentally or physically.

If someone hurt my horse right in front of me I would hurt them.... Period..
    02-02-2011, 07:00 PM
Kevinshorses ya I know what that can be like but you could do it and you must have made changes pretty quick to be called a miracle. I had a horse that had a bad start - not by the guy I had mentioned earlier by someone else - and the horse was so mentally abused that it took 2 years to get a proper relationship back. It was a real challenge and I actually start my own horses too so I'm pretty experienced. For me the ineffective techniques are so much easier to deal with but I'm sure that for someone less confident it could be a nightmare.

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