While we're talking politics...
 
 

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While we're talking politics...

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  • Memes gays
  • Sins in the bible silly

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    03-29-2012, 12:30 PM
  #1
Ink
Weanling
Wink While we're talking politics...

Since we're having such a nice debate over Obama and his policies in another thread, I though we might branch out and have a discussion over some other hot button topics that will be brought up in the upcoming election.

I am most interested to hear y'all's thoughts on gay marriage because I have yet to hear a single valid argument against it. To spite living in a state so opposed to the idea that they had to push through legislation banning same sex marriage even though it was already illegal

Here are a couple of the favorites people like to use:

"The Bible says it's wrong" - This argument falls apart on so many levels it's ridiculous.
First of all the Bible says a lot of things that modern Christians don't subscribe to. If you've ever eaten a bacon cheese burger... guess what? Last time I checked, Jesus didn't say one word regarding homosexuality specifically, let alone about it being sinful or wrong. He did mention something about loving thy neighbor though

Secondly, there's this little thing called separation of church and state. So regardless of weather you personally believe it's right or wrong, it is not the government's responsibility to enforce your religious convictions on the entire populous.

Moreover, marriage is not purely a religious institution. It is a social contract first and a religious one second. There are certain rights and ties to another person that can only be gained through marriage. How is it fair to deny these rights to an entire group of people just because you don't agree with their way of life? Atheists are allowed to get married. Why not gays and lesbians?

"But marriage has always been between a man and a woman!" - Yes, and up until the Civil War people had always owned slaves. The Bible even condones the ownership of slaves, but we don't do that any more do we? Just because something always has been a certain way, doesn't mean we should continue to do it.

"But marriage should only be between a man and a woman because they can make babies" - Oh really? In that case, a fertility test should be required when you apply for a marriage license because if you can't procreate, you shouldn't get hitched. Sounds kind of silly no?

"Legalizing same sex marriage will make it socially acceptable and encourage young people down a path of immorality." - This one is one of my favorites because it's just so ludicrous! So what if we tell our young people that it's OK to be gay? It's not like this is instantly going to turn all young people into homosexuals. People don't seem to get that it isn't choice. People don't just one day decide "Hey, I think I'll try being gay today. So what if I'm faced with daily public ridicule and abuse? It's the new hip thing to do." Look at it this way guys (assuming you're straight): if the world was reversed and being gay was accepted and straight looked down upon, would you suddenly be attracted to the same sex?

And the arguments just go down hill from there. I'm interested to hear what you guys have to say. All I ask is we keep things civil
Poseidon, amp23 and dbarabians like this.
     
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    03-29-2012, 12:48 PM
  #2
Super Moderator
This will be interesting, and if it can be kept as civil and free from personal attack as the Barack Obama one, it will be cool.

I have decided to support gay marriage. Somewhat hesitantly, but yes. I know quite a few men living as devoted couples and it seems that they should be allowed to formally cement the bonds that they live out in daily life, over the years.
I dont' have points to argue right now. This is simply an emotional position, for sure. And, its not something I feel super strongly about, either.
     
    03-29-2012, 01:05 PM
  #3
Yearling
Tiny, I agree with what you said.
I am, I guess, fairly old fashioned.
But the points are valid, as far as owning community property, taxes, inheritance and other issues.
I don't see making gay marriage legal ever hurting anyone, so why not?
     
    03-29-2012, 01:14 PM
  #4
Started
I think gay couples should be able to get married and be able to received the same benefits as male and female couples. But I do not think it should be done in a church setting.
Susan Crumrine and Ladytrails like this.
     
    03-29-2012, 01:16 PM
  #5
Trained



I love memes.
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    03-29-2012, 01:56 PM
  #6
Ink
Weanling
LOL Poseidon, I love those! My bother sent one of them to me the other day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kait18    
i think gay couples should be able to get married and be able to received the same benefits as male and female couples. But I do not think it should be done in a church setting.
I think that's a fair compromise, especially considering most gay people I know have been completely turned off of religion in general. Of course you would have to leave that up to each individual denomination too. I know the Episcopal church, for instance, has a much more open-minded policy regarding gays and lesbians, and I would think they'd be very open to allowing it.
     
    03-29-2012, 02:05 PM
  #7
Showing
I don't think gay marriage should be legalized in sense of getting benefits or allow to adopt children. However I think they should be able to sign "civil agreement" so in a case of divorce or if one dies the left one has the rights as a spouse (for the house, bank account, and other things).

Personally I don't care if the person is a gay or straight. As long as he/she doesn't bug me with what they do in bed (or the interest that I don't need).
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    03-29-2012, 02:14 PM
  #8
Ink
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
I don't think gay marriage should be legalized in sense of getting benefits or allow to adopt children. However I think they should be able to sign "civil agreement" so in a case of divorce or if one dies the left one has the rights as a spouse (for the house, bank account, and other things).

Would you care to elaborate why not? I'm especially curious about the not adopting children as you don't currently have to be married to do that. In fact there are plenty of gay couples raising adopted children right now. I would even argue two financially stable people in a loving same sex relationship would be a better choice to raise a child than some straight people.


EDIT: Oh and you guys feel free to bring up any other topics too, I was just using the gay marriage thing as a jumping off point.
     
    03-29-2012, 02:20 PM
  #9
Yearling
Personally I don't care if the person is a gay or straight. As long as he/she doesn't bug me with what they do in bed (or the interest that I don't need).[/QUOTE]

I don't care what anyone does in bed either, so long as kids and animals aren't involved.
I think a person's willingness to adopt and raise an unwanted child says much about them!
If they can provide a stable home, they should be allowed to adopt.
     
    03-29-2012, 02:22 PM
  #10
Trained
I consider myself a conservative moderate old school hippy if you can imagine such a thing! LOL!

I work in one of the most liberal industries, the music/art scene. All of my friends are hard core liberals, and most of them were raised by hippies. I live in an UBER conservative area, the bible belt, my grandmother was the head secretary of the NWA Baptist Association for 45 years! So I can fit in just about anywhere.

So, do I support gay marriage? Do I support homosexuals?
Welll, don't hit me.... but here are my thoughts.

Honestly I could care less what people do. Just as long as people do not try to shove their preference down my throat. I do believe that PEOPLE are good and bad, some wayyyyy worse than others. I have been constant friends with so many gay people in my life. I have OFTEN been mistaken for being homosexual because I'm athletic, not exactly girly, and for other reasons I can't even determine! The thing I really struggle with are the ones that openly advertise how "gay" they are. I have a friend that actually walks around with a sign around his neck advertising. Others who "act gay" around people who are uncomfortable with it. I see no point in this type of behavior. I don't parade around acting "Heterosexual" and let it be known to all. I AM NOT SAYING ALL GAY PEOPLE DO THIS! I feel like this behavior, however uncommon some may think it is does not help their argument. As for being gay in general my position would be far different if it was commonplace in nature, even though there have been multitudes of studies there hasn't been one that I can stand behind. I feel like with all the new tech and media being homosexual seems more commonplace than it actually is. So do we entirely change the history and definition of marriage for such a small population of people?
I say we put it to a nation wide vote and let the majority of people decide. PERIOD.

Do I openly speak out against it, no. But I personally will never support it. I do 1,000% support civil unions so NO member of society is denied benefits, rights, etc. I do so for numerous reasons.
For instance neither my aunt nor her best friend can have children. They have lived together for years off and on between marriages LOL! Her friend has no living relatives, so in the end I know they will be living together (unless they are living with me!!) and I feel like my aunt who is her only living "family" should be able to have the same rights as say a spouse would and vice versa.
My very good friends son and his best friend (he's an orphan) have lived together forever and neither will probably end up married. They share all the bills, support one another, etc. Neither are gay, I've met their random girlfriends on multiple occasions. But neither are willing to marry. So I believe they deserve the same protection and rights as two people who have lived their lives in marriage receive.

Just my personal thoughts. Please do not get on to me, I'm just being honest.
     

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