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While we're talking politics...

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        03-29-2012, 06:44 PM
      #101
    Ink
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kait18    
    personally think they should be forced to abort... but hey I am the beddy downer here lol
    I'm slightly inclined to agree with you. Those people have zero business having children. IF not outright aborted at least taken away from them when it's born. But then you have to deal with all sorts of complications that will arise from the drug use. That's just a bad situation all the way around.
    Susan Crumrine likes this.
         
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        03-29-2012, 06:50 PM
      #102
    Trained
    AQHSam, I'm a Baptist/Luthren/Christian yeah, messed up huh! But I and other protestant's believe marriage is a Holy sacrament and binding with God. I'm not sure what's going on with that?
    We joined in a union under God, what God brought together, let no man divide...

    Don't Catholics have a way to get forgiveness?
         
        03-29-2012, 06:58 PM
      #103
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FlyGap    
    I think it's sick. But those people knew they were addicts and should have prevented it, which is their right. They had plenty of time to abort in the first month, take the morning after pill, etc. Now the mother and the baby are in the "system" and we have to pay their way.

    Here's the thing though. Many woman who are heavy drug addicts do not have a period or they are highly delusional (or crazy whatever you'd like to call it). Addicts aren't rational people in the slightest and very often the last thing on their mind is whether or not they are going to get pregnant or not. Trying to remember to take the pill when you've been high for a week, up for 3-4 days straight, and you don't even know what day it is, really isn't realistic unfortunately.

    I personally know of at least 20 pregnancies that occurred while the mother was actively a drug addict. Some of them ended up aborting (very close to the limit) others genuinely didn't know until it was too late. Some of those babies were lucky, others were not...

    It's a hard one for me, I don't particularly like abortions, but I also have a hard time stomaching bringing a child into the world the cards completely stacked against them.
         
        03-29-2012, 07:00 PM
      #104
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MN Tigerstripes    
    Those of you against abortion.. What do you think about drug addicts carrying babies to term while they're using?
    Not every situation can be perfect, but I still don't support it.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kait18    
    but now if you make it illegal the law can interrupt it as clearly being illegal.

    No one thought somewho who took coffee from mcdonalds and spilled it on there lap could win but hey maybe a father who wanted the child more so then his wife could win the battle she murder his child no matter what stage of the abortion... the whole thing is once you put legislature around it...some one will take advantage of it in a negative way.
    If it's written in the law that an exception can be made for cases where a life is at stake, I don't see what the problem would be.
         
        03-29-2012, 07:01 PM
      #105
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FlyGap    
    AQHSam, I'm a Baptist/Luthren/Christian yeah, messed up huh! But I and other protestant's believe marriage is a Holy sacrament and binding with God. I'm not sure what's going on with that?
    We joined in a union under God, what God brought together, let no man divide...

    Don't Catholics have a way to get forgiveness?
    Thanks for the religious lesson! Yes. We can go through the sacrament of reconciliation and ask for absolution of our sins and perform our penance. My last penance was 25 hail mary's. I was a baaaaaaaaad girl.

    One reason I didn't think the Protestants considered it a sacrament has to do with the Catholic form of record keeping.

    I had to send of for my baptism record and it has each of the sacraments I have participated in (baptism, communion, confirmation and it lists my non-Catholic marriage annullment. (cough cough). After April, it will officially list my marriage as a record of sacrament.

    Come to think of it, I guess the root of marriage did stem from the idea of a financial contract between families.

    Huh. Going to think on that one.
         
        03-29-2012, 07:02 PM
      #106
    Ink
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AQHSam    
    As a member of the uptight Roman Catholic religious sect, and as someone who is going through marriage classes within the Catholic Church...

    I view my upcoming marriage first and foremost as a religious sacrament that fulfills my convenant with God.

    Phew. Wow. That's the most I have said about my religious beliefs this decade. The Catholic Church (to my knowledge) is the only religious organization to call marriage a sacrament and holy.

    Outside of the Catholic sacrament of marriage, the only TIES you speak of are social and financial in nature, hence your reference to social contacts.

    How a married couple reports their taxes, provides insurance for each other, and wills, estates, and probate are geared towards the married couple. Agreed. Additionally, these laws and benefits suck even if you are single and not in a relationship or living with someone of the opposite sex.

    Digress: While I agree that single opposite gender couples have the OPTION to take advantage of these benefits by marrying, some probably should not have. If I had a nickel for every couple that married out of convenience or because they felt they had to in order to enjoy a better way of life. Well, for most, that didn't work out so well.

    Many states have allowed legally binding financial and social contracts between persons of the same sex that wish to take advantage of these social benefits. Many companies offer insurance to partners of a same sex employee.

    I'm all for legal reforms so that same gender couples can take advantage of the social and financial benefits that a married (opposing gender) couple have enjoyed through the decades.

    But, (cough cough) in its purest form marriage should never be considered a social or financial contract.

    Our divorce rate as a nation is so high because many people (even those within the protestant faith) call marriage a social contract. Easy to enter. Easier to exit.

    You can't have both and not be two-faced. You can't ask for strong family values and a reduction in divorce rates AND call marriage a social contract.


    PS - I am one of those people that use the word "you" to refer to society in general and not any one poster or person.
    I find it interesting that Jewish custom allows for divorce, and Catholicism does not considering the latter descended from the former. Doesn't really have anything to do with the discussion, just an observation.
    Now, I don't think marriage is something that should be entered into lightly or exited lightly, but circumstances and people change. I'm not trying to discount the importance of the religious aspect of marriage for some people. But not everyone is religious, or even the same religion. I'd be interested to know how divorce rates differ based on religious affiliations. I don't think it necessarily fair to say an atheist couple will be more likely to get divorced than a Catholic one. Look at my family for instance (we were until recently Catholic): My dad was married and divorced with two children when he met my mom. They were able to get the first marriage annulled on no grounds other than they knew who to talk to. And the politicians who are calling for the return to "strong family values" generally aren't the ones supporting gay marriage
         
        03-29-2012, 07:03 PM
      #107
    Foal
    If you look at the Bible, here is what is says about homosexuality:
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

    Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. THey must be put to death; their blood will be on their own head."

    Homosexuality is not OK. Remember Sodom and Gamorrah? Those cities were burned because their sexual immorality was so great.
         
        03-29-2012, 07:12 PM
      #108
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AQHSam    
    The Catholic Church (to my knowledge) is the only religious organization to call marriage a sacrament and holy.
    Mormons believe the same.
         
        03-29-2012, 07:14 PM
      #109
    Ink
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Westernairesfly    
    If you look at the Bible, here is what is says about homosexuality:
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

    Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. THey must be put to death; their blood will be on their own head."

    Homosexuality is not OK. Remember Sodom and Gamorrah? Those cities were burned because their sexual immorality was so great.
    Thank you for that, people had been telling me it mention that somewhere in the New Testament, but I didn't know where it was. I figured it'd be somewhere in acts or the letters section. I like how it specifically says male prostitutes, I guess they were cool with female ones?

    It says a lot of fun things in Leviticus, I'm at work so I can quote anything directly, but you know. Part of Jesus's teachings was to get away from being so pinned down in the rules and rituals that you forget the actual point (paraphrasing here obviously) Which is why modern christians discount so much of the Old Testament. You've got to look at Paul's letters in a historical context too. I can't really get into right now because I gotta go.

    Regardless, that's not the point. It's that the government isn't responsible for deciding it's right or wrong.
         
        03-29-2012, 07:16 PM
      #110
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Whisper22    
    Not every situation can be perfect, but I still don't support it.



    If it's written in the law that an exception can be made for cases where a life is at stake, I don't see what the problem would be.
    just cause the law states something doesn't mean it can't be twisted... it happens all the time.
         

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