While we're talking politics... - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 258 Old 03-29-2012, 02:31 PM
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so do you support gay marriage or not? I wasnt' sure .
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post #12 of 258 Old 03-29-2012, 02:34 PM
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Me? No. Civil Unions.
But I do strongly believe:
I feel like with all the new tech and media being homosexual seems more commonplace than it actually is. So do we entirely change the history and definition of marriage for such a small population of people?
I say we put it to a nation wide vote and let the majority of people decide. PERIOD.

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post #13 of 258 Old 03-29-2012, 02:38 PM
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flygap - out of curiosity... what part of the marriage concept do you not want to be changed

I know you think the benefits after one deceases should be allowed but what particulars do you think shouldn't be changed
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post #14 of 258 Old 03-29-2012, 02:40 PM
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Would you care to elaborate why not? I'm especially curious about the not adopting children as you don't currently have to be married to do that. In fact there are plenty of gay couples raising adopted children right now. I would even argue two financially stable people in a loving same sex relationship would be a better choice to raise a child than some straight people.
Because I'm a believer that the child needs an interaction with mom (with the female approach) and dad (with male one), especially at the younger age. I know you can adopt when you are single as well, and situations can be different. BTW, I also think certain straight couples have no business raising kids (whether own or adopted). But it is what it is.

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post #15 of 258 Old 03-29-2012, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FlyGap View Post
Me? No. Civil Unions.
But I do strongly believe:
I feel like with all the new tech and media being homosexual seems more commonplace than it actually is. So do we entirely change the history and definition of marriage for such a small population of people?
I say we put it to a nation wide vote and let the majority of people decide. PERIOD.

My only problem with civil unions is that you get into the dangerous "separate-but-equal" territory that hasn't work out for us so well in the past.
You are absolutely right that the alternative sexualities are a minority, which is why I don't think it should be decided by popular vote. Those who have a real steak in the matter are less likely to be heard. Although, I totally agree it's a matter that needs to be decided nationally one way or the other. Leaving it up to each individual state is all well and good until the couple moves somewhere their marriage isn't recognized and then what?

I suppose I just don't see why allowing same sex marriage has to fundamentally change the definition of the word? Is marriage not two people in love making a legally binding commitment to each other? How does two people of the same sex making such a commitment cheapen it for the traditional couples?

I take issue with the fact that people like Kim Kardashian (lol no idea how to spell that name) can get married and divorced in the span of a few months, but a gay couple who have been in a committed relationship for years have less of a right to get married than she does.
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post #16 of 258 Old 03-29-2012, 02:55 PM
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First, there is no seperation of church and state in the constitution. The constitution says that congress shall make NO law regarding religion. That means that they can't legally establish religion in a school nor can they restrict religion in a school for example.

Second, while I don't doubt this will be a hot button issue in the presidential election it shouldn't be. Again the constitution gives the federal government certain powers and determining who can get married is not one of them. This is a state issue and should stay a state issue.

Finally, if you want to live your life as a homosexual then go ahead. I will die to defend your right to do so BUT don't insist that I like it and don't insist on any protected status that makes a crime against you any worse than a crime against me (hate crime legislation). I don't support gay marriage. I don't approve of homosexuals adopting children. Call me an old fashioed bigot but I just don't think it's right. I live in a very conservative state so I doubt I'll ever have to vote on it. California voted by a pretty good majority to not allow gay marriage and then some activist judges overturned it as against the constitution of California. That's for the people of California to deal with but I hope the people prevail.

One reason that legalizing gay marriage is a slippery slope is the fact that many churchs don't want to allow gay marriages in thier church but if gay marriage was made legal then the churches could lose tax exempt status and risk prosecution for not allowing them. That takes us back to the first paragraph.

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post #17 of 258 Old 03-29-2012, 02:57 PM
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The history and sanctity of marriage as a union between a man and a woman. All the other rights are to property and end of life or medical details (especially the more modern ones) which if voted so could and I feel should be protected with a civil union which is somewhat obtainable now in regards to setting up rights of attorney, wills, executior of estates. The whole deal needs to be put to a vote buy the entire nation and then laid to rest in regards to the constitution.

Can we talk about legalization of illegal substances? If so why and which ones.
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post #18 of 258 Old 03-29-2012, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Because I'm a believer that the child needs an interaction with mom (with the female approach) and dad (with male one), especially at the younger age. I know you can adopt when you are single as well, and situations can be different. BTW, I also think certain straight couples have no business raising kids (whether own or adopted). But it is what it is.
That's fair enough, but there are so many different situations out there in which a child is being raised without either one parent or the other. And as we seem to agree even some situations with both parents involved aren't ideal. So in a perfect world I can sort of see where you're coming from, but unfortunately we don't live in one.

If you are going to deny the right to raise children on those grounds, you would also have to take that right away from single parents. My feeling is a stable home with a same sex couple is preferable to an unstable one in either the foster system, or with unfit parents.
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post #19 of 258 Old 03-29-2012, 03:02 PM
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Any violent crime in my humble opinion is a hate crime, is it just a "strongly dislike" crime if you kill a person with your same ideals or ethnicity? Lol! You still got a warped reason for doing so!!
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post #20 of 258 Old 03-29-2012, 03:03 PM
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What is the argument for it?

The one I have heard most often is the "if the partner is in critical condition in the hospital", then the "partner" is denied visitation due to "non family member". That does not require a marriage certificate, there are civil unions and multiple other legally binding agreements that will satisfy that "requirement" just fine.

Then there is the federal recognition as married for taxes and such. Well, again, why not move to change civil union or some other legally binding agreement that is federally recognized, not demand it be "marriage" - which is but one legally binding document in an ocean of such pieces of paper.

While a civil union may or may not be recognized over all state lines, I haven't seen any mass demonstrations to make it so. Just marriage.

I think my horse should be recognized as my child. Define child. Define human.

And, as for a comparison to slavery...slavery is a clear violation of constitutional rights, oppression, etc.,. Not offering marriage to same sex partners is not oppression nor does it impact one particular group (e.g., men, women, disadvantaged, blacks, rich, asians).

So...there are MULTIPLE other solutions to a "union" between two people other than "homosexual marriage" so WHY FOR???
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