Why the lack of action taken by Congress on illegal immigration? - Page 2

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Why the lack of action taken by Congress on illegal immigration?

This is a discussion on Why the lack of action taken by Congress on illegal immigration? within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category

View Poll Results: Who mainly favors letting undocumented workers in
Conservatives -- mainly Republicans 1 7.69%
Liberals -- mainly Democrats 2 15.38%
Agriculture - Farmers, ranchers, fruit and vegitable growers 3 23.08%
Businessmen - they want cheap labor 0 0%
Politicians -- they want more votes 1 7.69%
All of the above 6 46.15%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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    06-23-2012, 08:44 AM
Originally Posted by dbarabians    
Lets not forget Faceman that Reagan was the Gov. Of California.
A state with a large influx of undocumented workers. He was also a ranch owner.
Gov Perry of Texas and both Presidents Bush also were not in line with the anti immigrant portion of the Republican Party that is now very vocal.
In fact George W bush had a favorable image in Texas with hispanic voters.
Funny Faceman I thought the amnesty was one of Reagans better decisions. Shalom
Oh there is no question Reagan's ties to California influenced his decision.

I don't know why you would think the amnesty was one of Reagan's better decisions. It is history now, and history clearly demonstrates his decision opened the revolving door on our border. Without the amnesty our problem would not be nearly as serious as it is nowm and we wouldn't even be having tghese discussions.

There have always been illegal immigrants from Mexico - long before Reagan. But they were not a particularly meaningful issue until after the amnesty opened the floodgates. Back in 1981, INS hauled off most of our seismic crew in South Texas, who were illegals, escorted them across the border, and by the time the sun came up the next morning, they were back. No one else but the illegals would work on the seismic crews in South Texas in the dead of summer with the heat, scorpions, and rattlesnakes, so they were needed, filled a niche, and it was no harm-no foul. But that was 30 years ago and a different world. Now the illegal invasion has progressed far beyond filling a needed labor niche...
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    06-23-2012, 08:46 AM
Super Moderator
I'll weigh back in briefly. Again, I have a set of trail horses to get ready for rides.

The main reason Reagan put the amnesty bill front and center has evidently been lost in time. He did it at the behest of Conservative Republican businessmen. He did it to 'break' the unions and make cheap help available to his big campaign contributers and big business buddies.

His action against the Air Flight Controllers (firing all of them) and his making of the illegal workers available to big slaughter facilities by having them replace the meat cutters in the Meat Cutters Union, he effectively broke several unions with the stroke of a pen. Several other Unions quickly followed and millions of American workers either lost their jobs or suddenly got less pay for it.

There is more than just one reason (changing the Tax Codes) that the wealthiest 1% had an 80% increase in earnings while the 99% of the rest of us have seen stagnant wages ever lower buying power ever since.

As long as there are enough Conservatives wanting the cheap labor, you are not going to see any significant action taken against illegal workers.

Some of the biggest Lobbying groups in Washington are also lobbying for the status quo. The huge restaurant, hotel and casino lobbies along with many other 'blue collar' industries all want the cheap help and they spends hundreds of millions keeping it this way.

This is probably the the biggest single reason there has been no action from Congress. I thinks the Dems are having such a hard time matching them in dollars to get people elected that they are going after the 'legal' Hispanic vote. After all, the illegals cannot vote but their American relatives and friends can.

If you want to figure out the 'whys' of things getting done and not getting done in Washington, just follow the money trail. Dollars rule. Then look at who has most of them. You will find it is in the hands of the mega-wealthy individuals and big business. Lobbyists and big business actually run our country. They replaced unions under Reagan as the major influence. Grass roots organizations and their candidates like the Tea Party get a big following to get into office and they only become obstructionists in Washington. They soon find out that their own party does the bidding of the big lobbies and businesses because they have the money to to get them reelected and they only spend it on those that keep restrictive laws from reaching the floor. They go to Washington with big ideas and get absolutely nothing done.

Take a good look at what is happening, especially in the illegal worker situation, with all of this in mind and it suddenly makes a lot more sense.
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    06-23-2012, 08:56 AM
Faceman, Reagan and Congress understood that they could not deport all those people.
It was a fair and simple policy and it worked. It was also bipartisain.
I voted for Reagan twice and GHW Bush once.
Both parties worked together in those days to pass meaningful legislation.
    06-23-2012, 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by SouthernTrailsGA    
Oh, yes, I know about this one (that makes some people while being in illegal status to be able to get residency) although I wouldn't call it "amnesty" really. I thought it was something similar to what Reagan did, but in the end of 90th. I guess I'm wrong. :)
    06-23-2012, 09:44 AM
Originally Posted by Missy May    
I would say because both houses are self serving, and the legislative branch is completely broken. For example

Dream Act students sue to stop Senate filibuster - Washington Times

Illegal alien students sue to stop US public servants from governing and representing the people (US citizens) so that they (illegals) can benefit from a US bill floated by someone that clearly feels illegals are "more equal" than citizens. And, remember, "more equal" is not in the constitution, which is the docterine the public servants are suppose to be flying by. I think that speaks volumes.
MM, we have something similar going on in Maryland at the moment (kinda local alternative). Looks like the court just ruled the state residents to vote in November on whether we are OK about sponsoring illegals or not. So will see... I'm kinda curious to see the results, because MD is considered to be a very democratic eta-eta-eta state.
    06-23-2012, 09:51 AM
Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
When the first people started settling North America weren't they all illegal immigrants?
Sure, except the immigrants from back then were leaving their own country for very different reasons. The immigrants today, especially from Mexico, are leaving because they turned their own country into a pile of garbage and no one wants to live there any longer. It was them, it wasn't the environment, it was the people who turned Mexico into what it is. So now those people want to get up and move somewhere else and guess what? The new place is also going to turn into a pile of garbage and California is already heading that way!

Fortunately where I'm from we don't have Mexicans. I'm assuming they don't like the cold. Unfortunately we have "refugees" from third world countries who come here and never get a job, mooch off social assistance, have thirty kids to their 2 bedroom apartment then their kids when they become old enough join street gangs to rob, rape and pillage those who are hard working. Every time I hear a murder or a random shooting in the news, it never disappoints when they bring up their family history. It's always the same sad story 9 out of 10 times.
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    06-23-2012, 10:03 AM
[QUOTE=jinxremoving;1562062]Unfortunately we have "refugees" from third world countries who come here and never get a job, mooch off social assistance/QUOTE]

Jinx, it's true for US as well...
    06-23-2012, 11:42 AM

Cherie, I will admit I did not pay as much attention to Politics as I should have in the 70's and 80's, I do not find evidence of Reagan passing this Bill to bust the meat packer Unions. I am not saying this may not have happened, but I do not believe this was the intent.

This Bill finally was passed many years after it 1st version, but was introduced by a Democrat and a Republican

I think reading the Links will refresh everyone's memory :)

Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Immigration Reform and Control Act

Firing the Controllers was the best thing anyone ever could have done, any Federal Worker who Strikes and puts the General Public in potential harms way or for that matter puts Millions of American at a huge disadvantage or inconvenience (such as striking garbage workers) should be fired immediately.

Many Bills have been passed before this, How about the one Jimmy Carter Passed in 1980?

Refugee Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As long as there are enough Conservatives wanting the cheap labor, you are not going to see any significant action taken against illegal workers.
Fairly low blow, especially as most Conservatives I know and most Conservatives on several Political Forums would 100% dis-agree with that statement. The preponderance of Conservatives I have found want the opposite, they want the Borders Closed and any form of Illegals deported.

If you want to figure out the 'whys' of things getting done and not getting done in Washington, just follow the money trail.
I will agree 100% with that one, Career Politicians are a Cancer to America, both sides...... We need hard Term Limits for any Politician, 12 Years should be more than enough time for someone to Serve ( I use Serve with disgust as I think Most Politicians Serve themselves and not the People who elected them)

As for myself, I am an Independent with a slight leaning to a Conservative and a Libertarian. But I have always voted for the Best People for the Job, Party Lines are BS in my opinion :)

Per you Poll, I will say every single type of Amnesty Bill seems to come up around Election Time and will say they are Politically Motivated. While some of the other choices made sense and partially apply.

I will also say in all my years I have never seen anyone Pander to whatever group will give him an chance for an extra vote than Obama has!
The only Group Obama has not Pandered to that I can remember is the Asian Community, but we still have a few more months, don't we :)

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    06-23-2012, 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
MM, we have something similar going on in Maryland at the moment (kinda local alternative). Looks like the court just ruled the state residents to vote in November on whether we are OK about sponsoring illegals or not. So will see... I'm kinda curious to see the results, because MD is considered to be a very democratic eta-eta-eta state.
Well, w respect to the OP's "why of it", you have provided another disturbing example. Instead of worrying about the constitutionality of allowing voters to determine if property can be taken from a group of citizens (tax payers and students in the form of education) and given to illegal aliens (non citizens that have commited a crime), they prepare bills such as these.

The framers of the constitution, in no way, meant for "non stake holders" and non-taxpayers, much less non-citizens (which happens in this state all the time) to be able to vote on issues such as this. If people believe their is another way to interpret it - then that debate should be front and center, not this. The constitution was never meant to be used to enslave the people.

THe time when congress represented the citizens of this country (including both the current democrat or republican parties) has long since past. In Mexico, they had "representation" on paper for about 8 seconds after their "independence". The problem is, many US citizens and the illegals they champion feel this lack of representation makes for a "superior culture" that is to be celebrated - and they are proud that they have ushered in its arrival. Without such people, congress could not even float such bills w/o the sponser's background, loyalties and mental health being questioned.
    06-23-2012, 04:30 PM
Super Moderator
I, personally, had friends that worked at a Slaughter / packing facility in Eastern Colorado when all of this happened. They were all 'laid off' and replaced by cheap, non-Union undocumented workers during this time. Since my father had been a machinist and a United Steel Workers Union man for 35 years, I had lots of early ties to Union talk and Union politics. I was nearly disowned when I voted for Reagan -- ONCE.

Here is a link that explains some of the anti-union politics of Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan's War on Labor (Labor) by Dick Meister
I remember well that at the time, it was all Union people were talking about -- especially after so many of them got wages either lowered or were laid off only to be replaced by Mexicans.

Today, the Conservative Republican dominated Chamber of Commerce and several of the biggest lobbying groups that represent, Hotels, Restaurants, Casinos, retail businesses (to name just a few) all are lobbying hard to keep as many Mexican workers here as they can.

It is Conservative individuals and small business owners that want them gone and their dollars sent to campaigns and their lobbying dollars are few compared to the BIG businesses listed.

So, what you get from Conservatives is lots a chest beating and ranting and raving and absolutely NO action that would make borders more secure and make it harder to hire illegal workers.

If you do not believe that this is true, why don't you people that have so-called Conservative Republican US Representatives go to your next twon meeting and ask these same questions and watch them squirm. Ask them if they take campaign contributions and PAC money from groups lobbying for keeping cheap undocumented labor here? Ask them what they think the ramifications would be if all undocumented labor was deported?
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illegal immigration

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