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your thoughts on suicide

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    09-30-2010, 10:29 PM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by Tessa T    
See you say that we, Christians, are the most pushy, judgmental, etc. Still Its more common of everyone else labeling us all mindless Bible Thumpers. You say we push you to our religion, but I' guessing most who absolutely refuse to look at Christianity as a belief get that way by hearing everyone going "Oh ,they're obnoxious pushy, mindless followers of some dead guy."
No I think it's because most of them are obnoxious pushy mindless followers. I think you'll find many people don't convert because they've spent time doing research and learned the truth on their own. One of those truths being that the Christian faith is largely based on Pagan beliefs. A lot of Christians don't like hearing that, but it's true.

Originally Posted by Tessa T    
I feel like SR. I believe with my whole heart in my Lord and I never tried to push that on anyone, I just couldn't stand there and let you guys say he doesn't care enough to stop someone from killing themselves, or help them before they get to that place.
It is what it is, which for the most part true based on my experience. I know a few Christians that have killed themselves. Explain that one if he wasn't there to help them before they got to that place. You can't, because he wasn't.

Originally Posted by Tessa T    
Don't lump us all together and think Speed Racer(As much as I respect her post) is the only person that believes and doesn't shove it down your throat.
Her reply was the only one I really saw indicative of not being one of those people.

Originally Posted by Tessa T    
There are some crazies that claim to be Christians that kill in the name of Christ! I think this is horrid and know that God does not condone this. There is obviously a few screws loose there, because if they read the Bible the whole " Thou Shalt NOT Kill" would be a clue as to if God is actually telling them to take human life.
How do you explain The Crusades then? That was done in the name of Christ by Christians. Or the witch hunts. Also done by Christians. Yes, there are extremists in many beliefs, but for a religion that has Thou Shall Not Kill as a mainstay of the religion, there was sure a lot of killing going on.

Originally Posted by Tessa T    
By the way you say "The Christians" it makes me feel like I'm lumped into all of them. Good, bad or indifferent. Well "Christians" are not the only ones that can be really pushy. Last time I checked I don't remember Christians asking if someone believe in Jesus an if the answer was no, chopping off their heads without hearing anything else. Like Islamic Extremists.
You are lumped in there as I'm lumped with the rest of the 'heretics', 'non-believers' or 'insert whatever name you want'.

Originally Posted by Tessa T    
Now I am smart enough not to lump all Muslims into one category and say they all kill non-believers. I respect their right to worship their God in peace as much As I do mine. Why does no one address Mormonism or Scientology. Why is it that Christians get the bad rap, regardless of our INDIVIDUAL look on our relationship with our God?
Because Mormons and Scientologists weren't brought up into the conversation as Christianity was. It's the same thing. I think Mormons do more converting than the Scientologists but it may differ by area.

As an individual you are still a part of the whole. Sure there are exceptions. Whether it's Christianity, Buddhism, Paganism, Atheists to probably. But when you identify yourself with that belief, people do base it on the belief as a whole, not necessarily that you have differing views from that belief.
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    09-30-2010, 10:30 PM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by Adonai Ace    
Yes really,

And like the killing in the OT, when read up on completely, you will see it said that the cup of their iniquity was filled. They had many chances to know God (through the hebrew nation) and still continued in their wrong ways.
God gives everyone chance after chance, until finally they completely tune out the Holy Spirit.
Even the hebrews eventually tuned out the Holy Spirit, although there was a remnant that remained true, and these were saved.
Also you will find that if in the other nations that were destroyed if there was any among them that believed, they were saved as well.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Yes it is easy for us to misinterpret the scriptures, that is the Devil's delight to cause people to do.
Read the website I added and then tell me there isn't inconsistencies. It wasn't the Devil that wrote the Bible, it was man. Now wouldn't God want his word to be consistent?
    09-30-2010, 10:30 PM
Green Broke
Double post sorry!
    09-30-2010, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by HowClever    
Christian's get the bad rap because Christianity is one of the oldest religions, and therefore has a very long, blood stained history.

By no means am I saying all Christians are like that, but unfortunately, with a history the likes of Christianity it is too be expected that a reputation follows.

As far as Mormons go, and this may be one of those rare exceptions (just like Christians have), but I vividly remember an experience when I was a kid. We had 2 mormon men knock on our door to "convert" us. My Mum is a devout Catholic. Those 2 mormon men spent the next few months calling on us every week, not to continue to try and convert us, as Mum had made it very clear what she believed, but too sit and discuss the differences and similarities in their religions. It was about the only time I have seen 2 religions co-exist so peacefully in my life.

That is a good thing that both sides were able to come together and talk about things. On the other hand, I experienced quite the opposite a few years ago. 3 Mormons, 1 older and 2 younger ones came to our door and knocked for 5 minutes till we answered. We let them pitch, explained peacefully what we believed and told them good luck and they almost forced their way in and my Dad being nice let them sit down and talk to us. They wouldn't leave! After they finally left, they called and left brochures and just about stalked us for a few weeks. I'm not saying that your experience didn't happen, and I'm grateful for it, I'm just stating that many different things regarding religion happen. No one is the same. Unless you're the It is unfair to say we are all the same, mindlessly converting anyone and everyone, just because. The Crusades were hundreds of years ago, it seems silly to even compare Christians today to the ones now who aren't completely bonkers.
    09-30-2010, 10:37 PM
Green Broke
Why is it silly? The bible was written a long time ago and those Crusades were based off the bible. So if the bible is still relevant what was done in it's name and the name of Christianity is absolutely relevant.

You say it's silly because you don't have a better response for what happened.

Those people weren't bonkers. They were devout Christians who thought they were doing exactly what God expected them to do. I've studied medieval history for years. I have several books on Saladin. One being called God's Warriors by Dr. Helen Nicholson and Dr. David Nicolle. It's a really interesting read.
    09-30-2010, 10:39 PM
Adonai-- I understand what you are saying and in the case of blasphemy and the similar I can see where this theory would be correct. I always thought "Thou shall not kill" is very definitive. Seems like it's more like "Thou shall not kill except when..."

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. Leviticus 20:27 NAB

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. Leviticus 20:9

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. Leviticus 21:9

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." Deuteronomy 13:13-19

^ This says that if one town has a non-believer, the whole town must be punished. Thoughts?

Evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. Deuteronomy 22:20-21

...keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' Exodus 31:12-15

There are many more, including killing of children which makes me think they can not be blasphemers.
    09-30-2010, 10:40 PM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by Tessa T    
The Crusades were hundreds of years ago, it seems silly to even compare Christians today to the ones now who aren't completely bonkers.
I am going to respectfully disagree here. We as human beings are all shaped by our history. Christianity and it's followers would not be what they are today, if not for the events of the past.

And there are still plenty of completely bonkers christians out there. What of those who will beat a person to death for being gay?
    09-30-2010, 10:41 PM
Tessa T, I think that that was well put.

As a christian, I don't think others should atomaticlly assume that that we try and shove others into christianity. I an thrilled when someone accepts the Lord as their savior and becomes another sister or brother in faith. I also accept others that are unbelievers and respect their religions or theories. Unbelievers seem to stamp a steriotype on christians like we are some large army of people who turn up their noses and hate anyone who isn't like them. There probably are christians like that, but not all are. The christian community that I live in is very peaceful. Most christians are. In a muslim extremist family in the middle east, if a family member converted to another religion, they are killed, sometimes by their own family. Most christians, like the people in my community, would be devistated if someone converted religions or lost their faith, but they would still be loved by their family and community and would be accepted. Most children in my community go to a seperate school and stay together with their friends of the same religion. Me, my sibings, a few friends of the same religion go to a public school with a lot of unbelievers and we are constantly labeled and criticized. Like how I was telling a girl about my new puppy named Tulip and she said "ha I would've thought that you would have named her Jesus or some other name like that that you bible people use." We have also been called the "scandinavian terrorists" and such. But we pray for them, and we keep strong in our faith. I just don't think that christians should be labeled and looked down upon as poeple who don't understand "the truth" or are "blind to what really happened" or "christians hate all gay people" and say that "the church is full of lies" or whatever others are saying. We as christians for the most part, accept unbelievers but it seem as though in the modern today, we yet in return are not accepted by the unbelievers which I think is sad.
    09-30-2010, 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by Starlet    
Unbelievers seem to stamp a steriotype on christians like we are some large army of people who turn up their noses and hate anyone who isn't like them.
Goes both ways
    09-30-2010, 10:46 PM
Green Broke
A lot of the unbelievers you talk about are previous Christians. I think it is fantastic that there are those who aren't what a lot of people see as Christians. The ones that can accept that not everyone is a Christian and will not tell those people they are going to Hell.

Speed was right. If there really were more of those people then I don't think there would be so many problems. But most 'non-believers' seem to get the interaction with the ones that are not like you and Speed, and yeah, it does shed a very bad light on the group as a whole.

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