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Which boots? Easyboot Trails vs Cavallo Simples

This is a discussion on Which boots? Easyboot Trails vs Cavallo Simples within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Has the cavallo boot caused bruising
  • Easyboot transition reviews

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    07-21-2012, 11:44 PM
  #11
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockwood    
It seems that there are about as many different ways to trim a bare hoof as there are riding styles now a days.

I have used accredited Barefoot trimmers on previous horses in other parts of the US and there is a difference in how they trim as opposed to more traditional methods.
OK, so what you're saying is that your current farrier does a trim that's perhaps inappropriate for the conditions. That in your experience, most farriers in your area do this? I don't at all think it's a given that all farriers do this though. There are good & bad trimmers under either 'banner' IME, which is why I asked for specifics on what you think your farrier is doing 'wrong'.

There are a few different theories & models different trimmers work to(& some 'barefooters' work to a 'recipe' type approach) but I think the main reason there are many different specifics is because every horse & situation is an individual & while there are principles to follow, the specifics are IME never quite the same from horse to horse.

Quote:
Loosie, the links below go a little more in depth on the transition/transitional stages you asked about.
I'm well aware of changes & problems that can occur, whether they're labled or excused as 'transitional' or otherwise. I was asking specifically what your horse is suffering.
     
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    07-22-2012, 11:26 AM
  #12
Super Moderator
My responses to your post are in bold.
My regular comments are at the end of my response....

[Originally Posted by Lockwood It seems that there are about as many different ways to trim a bare hoof as there are riding styles now a days.

I have used accredited Barefoot trimmers on previous horses in other parts of the US and there is a difference in how they trim as opposed to more traditional methods.]

"OK, so what you're saying is that your current farrier does a trim that's perhaps inappropriate for the conditions."
No, what I am saying is that this particular farrier is old school and doesn‘t seem to take the conditions in to consideration when trimming. Nor does he even want to see how a new horse moves, know what the intended use is, or anything else about a horse, including history. That is not customary in my previous horse experiences with many other types of farriers.

"That in your experience, most farriers in your area do this?"
Yes, it is actually very common in this area for farriers to work this way. It is also common for horses to have soreness issues after trims according to most of the horse people here that I have talked to, which is quite a few. So much so that people think it is just the norm, and they take it upon themselves to go to TSC and purchase nippers and rasps and just do them themselves. Their reasoning is that they can certainly do the same thing to their own horses and save some money. (Yes, they really think and say that.)

Many of the labeled farriers/trimmers here (my immediate area) are not formally trained. They are just good ol’ boys with the reputation of being cheap and not ruining too terribly many horses. This is not horse country, and it is far different from my previous experiences in other parts of the country. If it helps you to know, there is heavy influence of Amish and Mennonite in animal care and standards around here. Not saying that is wrong or bad, just different as in old fashioned. Progressive or current are not really even on the radar here.

"I don't at all think it's a given that all farriers do this though."
Neither do I, nor did I intend to imply they do, which is why I tried to use words like different, or method/style as opposed to better or worse.

"There are good & bad trimmers under either 'banner' IME, which is why I asked for specifics on what you think your farrier is doing 'wrong'."
I wasn’t trying to say my farrier was wrong and is why I tried to initially leave him out of the conversation. (More about him below)
I think he is using the knowledge that he has and I’m sure what he does is just fine for most horses.

"There are a few different theories & models different trimmers work to(& some 'barefooters' work to a 'recipe' type approach) but I think the main reason there are many different specifics is because every horse & situation is an individual & while there are principles to follow, the specifics are IME never quite the same from horse to horse".
I completely agree and I only mentioned my experience with an accredited barefooter to make the point that my opinions do not come from random info I pulled off the internet. I’m had many conversations and lots of experience with all different kinds of trimmers and farriers. Traditional, Natural, Barefoot, many who fall in between, and those who cannot be labeled in any way.
I agree that each horse has different needs or specifics and I think a good farrier should be able to read the horse and know what the horse needs, regardless of the tag applied to how they trim, shoe, or work.

I don’t subscribe to there only being one method that is the “right” method. I am not against metal shoes either. And again, I’m not trying to bash farriers because I generally respect them very much. Most of my experiences are good and I can’t blame all my horses issues on him. Some horses make the transition very smoothly, some don’t.

My thread was really intended to gather some boot information, not discuss trimmers or trimming methods.

[Quote:
Loosie, the links below go a little more in depth on the transition/transitional stages you asked about.]

"I'm well aware of changes & problems that can occur, whether they're labled or excused as 'transitional' or otherwise. I was asking specifically what your horse is suffering. "
My boys particular issues are sloughing frogs, bruises, tenderness, and fast growing walls. All of which he can’t answer my questions on… particularly on how often he needs trimmed.
So I am left to figure out most of what my horse needs on my own.

Now, in defense of my farrier… he is wonderful with my rescue donkeys!
I found an older donkey and a BLM burro who were neglected and standing knee deep in cow manure and muck, which is a whole other story.
The burro had slipper foot and hadn’t been trimmed properly for years. The female donkey had foundered and her feet curled perpendicular to her body like wings and you could see the “bottom” by just standing next to her and looking down. She was hobbling around on the outside of the hoof walls and her fetlocks are deformed.
The trimmer the old owner used let them get way out of hand and the curve, or "U" rather, was severe enough to hold golf balls.

When the previous owners actually did get them trimmed, the animals were either hoisted up with belly bands or they were drugged. The burro is extremely sensitive to any metal clanging noises that even remotely resemble hoist chains. Even just a halter buckle noise terrifies him.
My farrier is incredibly patient with them, has a good reputation for doing donkeys and mules, and is getting the female to where she is much better and more comfortable. The burro’s feet are almost normal now, but we still have quite a ways to go with the jenny.
     
    07-22-2012, 08:10 PM
  #13
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockwood    
"OK, so what you're saying is that your current farrier does a trim that's perhaps inappropriate for the conditions."
No, what I am saying is that this particular farrier is old school and doesn‘t seem to take the conditions in to consideration when trimming. Nor does he even want to see how a new horse moves,
That sounds to me like another way of saying what I said!
Quote:
I wasn’t trying to say my farrier was wrong and is why I tried to
You do seem to be saying just that - & I'm not trying to sound judgemental about that at all BTW. I think maybe I wasn't clear enough. As different people have different ideas about what a 'pasture trim' is, different farriers 'traditionally' do things differently in different areas, I was wanting to know the specific problems your farrier apparently causes your horse.

Quote:
My thread was really intended to gather some boot information, not discuss trimmers or trimming methods.
I was wanting more information to work out why you think your horse needs boots for turnout & how else you might possibly better address the problem, as full time booting is not advisable if it can be avoided.

Quote:
My boys particular issues are sloughing frogs, bruises, tenderness, and fast growing walls. All of which he can’t answer my questions on… particularly on how often he needs trimmed.
So I am left to figure out most of what my horse needs on my own.
Sloughing frogs; it does tend to happen yearly & I don't know that it's necessarily a problem. However it often happens because of waterlogged feet &/or thrush. I don't trim frogs as a rule, but I do trim any raggedy bits & cut away 'overhangs' and open central sulcii to reduce thrush. If heels are thrushy &/or otherwise weak, yes, protection/support for work on hard ground is advisable, but hooves are better off dry & bare most of the time.

Bruises & tenderness - the crux of the thread - may be one and the same. Is he sore in the paddock or only when being ridden on hard/gravelly ground?

Healthy walls typically grow at around 1/4" per month. Healthy & well used feet may grow quicker than that(eg. The more you use it, the more it grows.). How often to trim? Generally I find 4-5 weekly is adequate. That's the average. Some horses, particularly those with problems to be treated, benefit from more regular, 'littler' trims and some can go over 6 weeks. The aim is to trim often enough to *maintain* healthy function, not allow them to overgrow substantially between trims & have to 'correct' the problem at every trim.
     
    07-24-2012, 12:10 PM
  #14
Super Moderator
I may have some interesting news...
Through the Easycare site and more digging around I found there two natural hoof care trimmers in a few of the surrounding counties. One has expereince with wry hoof, which the jenny arrived with.

It has been 5 weeks since my horse's last trim and he really needs another one, but my farrier only likes to come at 8 to 9 week intervals and isn't due til the middle of August.
I'm going to to try and track these trimmers down and see if I can at least pick their brains.
If I am lucky I may talk one into making the drive to my place to see my horse and donkies and maybe do trims. Perhaps if they can see my guy in person they can advise about whether he needs boots or not, although I still would like to have at least front ones on hand if needed, since there have already been a few times they could have been helpful.

Although it may have sounded like I intended to keep them on him all the time, I didn't. The boots now are for getting through the rest of the rough spots, and then for use in the future, again... as needed.

I know you respond to alot of hoof care threads Loosie, and probably don't remember my prior one on the bruises in my horse's hooves, but I posted some pics (all be it bad ones ) and you mentioned then it looked like some boots would be helpful.

I took what you had to say, as well as plenty of other reading and research and have been thinking about them since. While I have never bought actual trail boots before for my own horses, I have used them in the past on other people's horses with great sucess, along with treatment boots too.

Cross your fingers everyone that I'm able to track these folks down and have some educational conversations.
loosie likes this.
     
    07-25-2012, 07:58 PM
  #15
Trained
Yes, if your horse is uncomfortable on any of what you work him on, boots are a good idea. Of primary importance in choosing a type of boot is whether it's the best fit for your particular horse, but yes, Easy Trails are good & easy! Best wishes with getting a good trimmer, as yes, even if your farrier's great, 8-9 weeks between trimming is generally too long.
Lockwood likes this.
     
    07-26-2012, 03:46 PM
  #16
Foal
The Cavallo boots have worked great for my horses. They are very easy to put on, stay on through anything, and have never caused any rubbing or discomfort for my horses. I have used them for both riding and turnout and have been very impressed with the performance of these boots!
Lockwood likes this.
     
    08-05-2012, 12:50 PM
  #17
Super Moderator
Because of times, schedules, and the distance to travel, I wasn’t able to get something set up with the other farriers mentioned above for this trim cycle.

My current farrier is coming next week, so I am going to really discuss with him my concerns about my horse’s feet and that I want to take a more proactive and more frequent trim approach.

After more reading, research, and learning I still can’t say if he is doing anything wrong per say, except for not frequent enough trims, and it could just be how my horses is reacting/transitioning to becoming barefoot. There (so far) is just no need to keep shoes on him at this point, so bumping the trims up should help.

I was able to get good measurements on my horse’s hooves for boots a while back, but those really need to taken right after a recent trim so I’ll also get his help with new measurements when he is here so I have those for boots. Then, I will call the boot companies and really pick their brains too.
(Picking brains seems to be my favorite past time.)

My farrier obviously knows far more about hooves than I do and does a fab. Job with the donkeys, so we’ll see if this helps before getting a new and much further away farrier.
     
    08-05-2012, 01:07 PM
  #18
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockwood    
My farrier obviously knows far more about hooves than I do and does a fab. Job with the donkeys, so we’ll see if this helps before getting a new and much further away farrier.
Don't sell yourself short. You might be better off learning to trim them yourself.

Starting last March, I have been thru two professionally schooled trimmers to trim my foundered horse . I felt the horse needed more "intelligent" help than my trims could give. One Pete Ramey, One Ric Redden.

While the chiropractor hasn't cut me any breaks, I'm sure the vet has knocked off a good $500, all totalled, as part of this garbage happened on the same weekend my husband had a heart attack bad enough to be life-flighted to the heart center in Nashville, TN

Almost two thousand dollars and one crippled horse later, I am back to trimming his hooves

He is going to recover but to what degree I have no idea. If I get 85% recovery, which makes him ridable for 15 minutes down the road when my 10 yr old niece comes to visit, I will now be ecstatic.

I won't go into the 2K dirty/ugly details but my point is, DON'T sell yourself short; nothing you've said to-date indicates your IQ is in the two digits. I'll bet you would quickly get "it" in the trimming department if you made up your mind to it
     
    08-05-2012, 01:14 PM
  #19
Showing
Late to the thread... :)

I wouldn't use any boots for turn-out. I tried it twice (once with abscess, once when my qh's frog was badly cut), and both times the boot got off (with all those running and bucking there was no chance). For riding/work I'd prefer Easyboot over Cavallo (Cavallo was very bulky and moving when I tried it on one of my horses).

Too bad your farrier comes out only every 8-9 weeks. I go with 8 weeks in a winter, but in spring-summer they seem to be grow LOTS of hoof already in 4 weeks. If your back allows you can look into learning how to do "touch-ups" yourself with the rasp between the farrier visits (I do it sometime if the farrier can't make it this week and I have a show, or if there is chipping).
     
    08-05-2012, 11:13 PM
  #20
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by walkinthewalk    
....nothing you've said to-date indicates your IQ is in the two digits. I'll bet you would quickly get "it" in the trimming department if you made up your mind to it

Oh I don’t know about that…having just come through a week of severe and damaging storms, then add a 5 day bout of the stomach flu with my little one and I’d say right about now I’m ranking pretty low. With mush for brains, I’m surprised I can even put two words together without tripping.

Tis an idea Walkinthewalk....
Since I have been digging further into the hoof, I did consider what I could do to help the situation. I’m thinking to ask my farrier that if he can’t/won’t come more often, please show me how I can at least do some light rasping at two week intervals, like K.V. Mentioned, between his trims because the hoof walls are getting too long too fast.

He is a fairly mellow and laid back guy and he might do that.

K.V. You nailed it though… I do have an old back injury that is easily aggravated. I’m not sure I can hold the foot for rasping for more than a minute or two at a time.

Back issues aside, I would love to understand the hoof better and the mechanics of the motion through the hoof and wish I could take some time to attend a seminar or two.

Thanks for the input on the boots too. The Cavallos are on the short list because they are said to fit a rounder hoof better. My boy has dinner plate feet, but I’m still leaning towards the Easyboot Trails.


MyBoyPuck- thanks for the tips about the powder and the pads. Healthier frogs is something I’m working towards am think I’ll probably get pads too. If for no other reason than to have them on hand.

Speaking of pads guys, there are some “Hoof Wrap” brand gel pads made with tea tree and jojoba at my local TSC. They are cut to fit and look (and feel) nice, but have no reviews on them. Anyone know anything about them or know of a good type to have on hand?
Any other specific materials or foams that I should stay away from?
     

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