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Brighteyes Trims Feet

This is a discussion on Brighteyes Trims Feet within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category

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        05-17-2014, 10:45 AM
      #21
    Yearling
    Quote:
    To ensure this, my very basic 'rules' are not to rasp more than 1/3 up from the ground
    That is the general rule.... 1/4 to 1/3 the way up. That is enough to reduce the forces that are bending the wall. The ELPO (and most traditional farrier texts) say when you look at the sole side the thickness from the outer edge of the sole to the outer surface of the dressed wall should be equal around the foot whether it is to be left barefoot or shod. There is nothing new about the idea of dressing flare to put symmetry back into a foot. It is just good farrier work.
         
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        05-17-2014, 12:34 PM
      #22
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Patty Stiller    
    Also a bent (flared) wall is not supporting anything very well because it is bending outward as it loads. It is weak.
    Removing the flare removes the bending forces and allows the new wall to
    re-grow in straighter and stronger. So if you believe the wall is the main support structure, would you not want to get it stronger by being straighter?
    This certainly seems to be the philosophy of both my farrier here and every one that I used in the UK - and one of them was a regular champion in farriery competitions. My farrier here works with several local vets on remedial cases
    When we bought Looby she couldn't go barefoot at all and her feet always had splits in them because they had flares. By encouraging the foot to grow in the correct direction using the technique you describe she went from a horse that needed shoes all year round to one that is barefoot (and ridden) all year around. And has no cracks at all - ever.
         
        05-17-2014, 02:55 PM
      #23
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Patty Stiller    
    Also a bent (flared) wall is not supporting anything very well because it is bending outward as it loads. It is weak.
    Removing the flare removes the bending forces and allows the new wall to re-grow in straighter and stronger. So if you believe the wall is the main support structure, would you not want to get it stronger by being straighter?

    No, not necessarily.

    This horse (Dexter) hunts barefoot, but his foot needs to be this shape to balance a problem higher up the leg, remove and "straighten" that flare and the horse ends up lame. Sometimes it is needed.

    Rockley Farm: Bizarre hooves, why they occur and what to do about them

    (this is from a blog which we have previously discussed as a useful information resource as it documents many desperate hooves rehabbed through going barefoot).
         
        05-17-2014, 04:09 PM
      #24
    Yearling
    It is extremely doubtful (like 100% doubtful) that the flares are what is helping that horse. The article says they are self trimming. The fact is they are not trimming much at all, they are just flattening the wall that has grown beyond the sole to get it our of the way so the foot can balance itself.
    .
    Given the hoof history as described and how the hoof used to collapse on one side, I can assure you that what IS most likely helping is that when he was shod and lame the farrier was shoeing UNbalanced to the horse's own internal bone structure.
    The collapsing foot was simply responding to uneven load and trying to balance itself. The soundness now has absolutely nothing to do with having flares.

    Now that they are barefoot they have leveled themselves to their OWN individual internal structure so the horse is sound, The badly flared wall is supporting NOTHING . It just bent and got out of the way.
    But the foot is now correctly balanced internally and is supported primarily by the frog, sole bars and heels.
    So I guarantee if someone just started taking those those hideous feet forward on a post and removing the flare without changing the sole plane balance the horse could still be barefoot, be sound and have have decent looking feet as a bonus. I have done it myself many times on dozens of horses with feet just like that.
         
        05-17-2014, 04:30 PM
      #25
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Patty Stiller    
    .
    Given the hoof history as described and how the hoof used to collapse on one side, I can assure you that what So I guarantee if someone just started taking those those hideous feet forward on a post and removing the flare without changing the sole plane balance the horse could still be barefoot, be sound and have have decent looking feet as a bonus. I have done it myself many times on dozens of horses with feet just like that.
    Apparently not, when this hoof is trimmed as you suggest the horse goes lame, it simply needs that edge to balance an issue higher up (the owners have tried and experimented with many different ways of dealing with it). It just seems that we as humans are programmed to think that a certain shape (usually symmetrical ) is how hooves should be, even when the horse actually grows something different and achieves it's own soundness.

    I can honestly say that I believe the owner of the blog would say that she can guarantee that the horse needs that shape of hoof, and she knows her horses and is extremely successful at dealing with horses that are facing the bullet if her rehabbing doesn't improve things as all other options have failed.
         
        05-17-2014, 04:42 PM
      #26
    Showing
    Years ago I was blessed with a few very good farriers. They never rasped the hoof wall on what we used to call a pasture trim. It was often done when the horse was shod to make the wall match the shoe. If the horse was shod on a regular basis then very little of the wall was rasped, just close to the shoe. My farriers were careful to balance even a shoeless hoof, walking the horse walk on a hard surface, touching up the hoof, watch it walk again. Never see that nowadays with any of the trimmers.
         
        05-17-2014, 09:48 PM
      #27
    Trained
    I'm not going to comment on that Rockley park eg. I'm just... not.

    But I too am interested in the apparent contradiction, that it seems the vast majority of farriers dress flares from the top & pay little attention to the mechanics on the ground. Especially as they still frequently believe it's the hoof wall that should be the weightbearing structure...
    Patty Stiller likes this.
         
        05-18-2014, 03:35 PM
      #28
    Super Moderator
    All I know is that with the flares Looby was lame because any pressure with the ground was forcing the wall of the foot away from the white line and sole which was also leaving it wide open to bacterial or fungal infection - or both
    Gradually reducing the flares brought the wall back in line and the result was a sound horse
    Whoever had shod her in the past had put a larger shoe on her to accommodate the flare rather than try to correct it and that had made things worse, she looked like a fine legged horse with draft sized feet
         
        05-19-2014, 08:14 AM
      #29
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Patty Stiller    
    I believe the strong difference of opinion here stems from different ideas about the basic function of the hoof wall and other structures of the foot.

    Amigoboy, you were taught the same way I was initially 32 years ago. Obviously you have has a successful carer using those methods. And you still believe that the hoof wall is supposed to be a primary weight bearing structure. I was taught that too. Therefore I USED to believe that, and I used that same theory for 14 years.

    However after being introduced to some new and thought provoking ideas in early 1996, I changed my thinking over time by trying out these ideas on horses, and seeing the successful results.
    I consistently witnessed rapid positive changes in my own client's horses that convinced me to look differently at the horses foot and move away from how farriers have been trimming and shoeing for the last few centuries. It has been nothing but positive, and horses have improved their soundness and performance, across the board. For me as well as all the other farriers who arwe doing it the newer way.

    So Amigoboy, just as your methods are accepted and safe, so is this. It is just a little different approach . Your fears that this method harms horses are unfounded as long as the method is applied correctly. (just as in traditional methods)

    As well I am a bit confused with what you say about the weakening of the wall by removing flare because ALL decent farriers I know including AFA journeymen remove flare from the hoof wall routinely. Do you have issue with them.

    The AFA says in their guidelines that the farrier should remove the flare BEFORE fitting a shoe to the foot. Given that you clearly support the AFA doesn't that create conflict with your idea that is needs to be left alone? Please clarify that contradiction for me.
    I have no idea what kind of farrier education you recieved 32 years ago.
    All I know is that which you are advocating is detrimental to the Hoof capsule.
         
        05-19-2014, 12:51 PM
      #30
    Trained
    To go back to the OP now...

    I agree that those hooves look pretty overall. Yes a bit of toe flare. My practice to adjust that is to rasp almost completely vertically a bit and then round that into the existing wall above. I have also rasped the wall as Patty indicated. Note that this rasping is very light. It's not like you're taking 1/4" off the wall. More like 1/16" or 1/8" depending on the situation. I have then kept up with that, just a bit at at time, maybe every couple of weeks just for the flare so that when trim time come around again, I am already ahead of the game. But the situations I did that in were showing much more flaring.

    I also think that there is not enough rasping of the quarters on the bottom plane. It looks to me like there is some excess pressure there pushing up on the coronary band.

    Overall though - nice.
         

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