Calling all hoof experts. Loosie? Ricci's hoof saga. - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 152 Old 12-15-2010, 02:13 PM
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My point was more that if she never gets on a schedule that allows her hoof to grow with out getting over grown her ability to get rid of the flare will be limited.

Hence the reason so many barefoot trimmers put their new clients on a very short schedule and then people are all tickled pink because their horses feet have a better shape.

If you trim a balanced hoof but allow it to grow to the point it is not balanced anymore you are continually fighting. If you trim a balanced hoof and keep it balanced it is not like pushing water up hill.
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post #32 of 152 Old 12-15-2010, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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I got her at 7 months, she turned 2 mid August. I'll take a picture so you can see her feet. But now that you say what causes it, I hardly feel comfortable with them, ad my farrier just saying that's how she is. O_o Give me a half hour and I'll post more pictures.

ETA: Oh, I see what you're saying, Always. For the most part, they've been on a regular schedule, although a longer one. I get the importance of regularity, and will make sure they both stay regular from now on. We will see what the barefoot trimmer thinks would be a good schedule, and my current farrier as well.

Last edited by riccil0ve; 12-15-2010 at 02:17 PM.
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post #33 of 152 Old 12-15-2010, 02:30 PM
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Ricci, AB is right. Since the majority of my horses are in rehab, correcting from founder, flares, cracks, etc, my horses have been on a 4 week trim schedule for over a year. Trimming them more often does NOT make the hoof grow any faster, but it does a bit more in terms of correcting flares by keeping them short enough to prevent them hitting the ground at the wrong angle and continuing to pull loose. Not saying your horse needs done every 4 weeks to get better - I'd stick to whatever schedule your trimmer/farrier suggests - but do try to get on a SET schedule and stick to it. That's important - getting even a little overgrown will be taking steps backwards in the recovery process!

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post #34 of 152 Old 12-15-2010, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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After looking further at Gracie, I'm wondering of her flare is due to her conformation. While trying to get a picture of the flare, I noticed her leg comes down on the inside of her foot instead of the center. It's not as bad as this picture makes it look, she was cocking the other hip and leaning, but it at least shows what I'm talking about. The flares are on both hind feet, the fronts are just very round.

The exaggerated picture.

The bottom of the same hoof. The flash made it a bit weird, but I wanted to show how wide her foot is.

And for sh*ts and giggles, the bottom of her front. Much more round, although still very wide. I think that just may be part of her conformation though, to have dinner plate feet?
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post #35 of 152 Old 12-15-2010, 04:46 PM
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Ricci, no, the feet are not like that from how she stands, and in fact I'd more likely lean towards she stands like that because of how her feet are - if that makes sense.

Her feet are not supposed to be so wide and flared like that. If you look closely, you can see stretched white line all the way around the hoof, and particularly from quarters to heels. You can see the little callous ridge that is the true end of her sole, all the way around. That is where her hoof wall SHOULD be. This really is a trimming issue - I'd definitely find out WHY he is trimming her the way he is.

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post #36 of 152 Old 12-15-2010, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
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Hmm... Yes, Keith will definitely get an earful tomorrow, lol. I'll be nice, of course, and respectful, but if Gracie's conformation is affected by the way her feet are being trimmed..? That's not all him, but he has worked with her more than anyone else.
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post #37 of 152 Old 12-15-2010, 07:52 PM
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I wouldn't blame the farrier too much. It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Does the horses conformation effect the hoof or does the hoof effect the conformation? I think you could make very convincing arguments either way and it's immposible to tell from looking at a few pictures on the internet.

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post #38 of 152 Old 12-15-2010, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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Oh definitely. I really respect this farrier, and I don't think in the least he has "screwed up" either of my girls. =] I just don't know of his "style" is working for Ricci. Gracie is probably a simple case of not paying attention, lol.
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post #39 of 152 Old 12-15-2010, 08:51 PM
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I have to agree with some other people on here the toes looks to long and the angle looks like the heel has to come up just alittle that may help put relief on the tendons I know that if the hoof has the wrong angle then its like the tendon is constantly stretching just imagine if you were walking on your heels all the time that would eventually help as well but I'm not an expert by any means
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post #40 of 152 Old 12-15-2010, 08:52 PM
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OK, got time for a quick reply & more questions for you... sorry that I've only skimmed other's replies too, so may repeat stuff...

Originally Posted by riccil0ve View Post
Some of you may remember my threads about my mare, Ricci and her foot/leg problems. Basically, her feet hurt, causing strain on her tendons in the back of her front legs and [we assume] in the soft tissue of her feet. I have had my vet out. Approximately 9 months ago, he took x-rays to rule out navicular,
Vaguely remember. Got the link to the thread? Got some more pics of now? Eg. idfferent solar angles showing depth & heel height/balance?

Re 'rule out navicular', I presume that means damage/degradation to nav. bone has not occurred? Were any scans done to show if there was any damage to DDFT?

Basically, heel pain/'navicular syndrome' is very common, due mainly to the cushy environments and little exercise our horses get. Horses may just never have developed the strong digital cushions & lateral cartilages needed to support proper hoof function of a mature animal. When there is heel pain, the horse tries to avoid the discomfort by 'tippy toeing' and not using the back of his foot. Unfortunately that exacerbates the issues, as less use = less health and the heels can then also become contracted, thrushy, overlong, more sensitive.... This is aside from different fashions of trimming/shoeing, etc. Toe first landings mean the 'shock absorbers'(digital cushions) of the horse's feet aren't working and there is little capacity with the forces hitting the tip of P3 for shock absorbtion directly through the bones & joints. In addition, both the DDFT & the are under strain on impact in this position and it is thought that this strain as the DDFT rubs against the back of the nav. bone causes it to become damaged and subsequently damages the nav. bone itself.

So.... regardless of the way a horse may be trimmed, toe first landings can still happen. You might trim a 'perfect' angle onto a hoof, but if there's heel sensitivity, he'll still avoid the pain, despite how 'ideal' it is. So the primary emphasis is getting the horse to *comfortably* land heel first, which will in turn start developing the structures for good hoof function & shock absorbtion. To this end, I would treat for thrush(whether it's obvious or not), avoid paring any frog, except for any manky flappy bits - certainly don't allow routine frog paring, as seems to have been done, and watch how she's walking and pad/boot her feet wherever necessary to allow comfortable & proper movement. I would also consider that while her heels are still weak, although the 'ideal' heel length may be shorter than it is ATM(The sole pic to me appears there's little to come off anyway, but pics aren't most accurate info), for her comfort it *may* be beneficial to leave that little extra length for the time being.

Regarding the trim, as others have said, pics when she's due don't show the best, and while IMO there are indeed some probs with what's been done, but superficially at least, I don't think it's too bad, or apart from the frog paring, not likely to contribute to her pain or cause further probs. I gather by 'bubbles' you mean the horizontal bulges in growth? I think while imbalance can indeed exacerbate this, it is metabolic stress(generally diet) that leads to the laminitis that causes the initial weakness. So again on that front too, I don't think the trim is the primary concern.

First, he put natural balance shoes on her. They seemed to help at first and then the second time around, I saw it wasn't helping.
Yeah, read a good article about NB(& other 'corrective' shoes/trims) recently that I'll see if I can dredge up for you. Basically NB shoes are not meant to be a long term answer anyway. While it seems that your horse does have a bit of a long toe, it appears from the one sole pic there *may not* be much stretching at the toe laminae(altho obviously fair bit at quarters) seems like there is not that much depth to the sole & it's still a bit thin, so the length is possibly mostly due to the pedal bone having 'sunk' in the capsule, in which case there is little that should come off the length now, or 'backed up' at the front, until the internal structures are able to become higher in the capsule.

She said the bubbly wave she has going on is indication that she is growing an angle that is not consistent with the trim she has been getting. She said her quarters were left too wide, and she has actually grown too much heel. Everything she said made sense, and Ricci obviously needs a change. If my current farrier was working, I would see evidence of some kind of improvement, right?
Agree with her on the quarters, but see above re 'bubbly line' & heel length. Without more info can only say she may be right.... or she may be wrong, but there's more to it than that. Re evidence of improvement, as trimming is but one of many factors of hoof health, not necessarily, sorry.

Anyway, hope that's been of some help & food for thought. Gotta go now but I'll keep an eye out for more info, etc.
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