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Can a difference of 9 degrees in coffin angles cause...

2K views 14 replies 9 participants last post by  princessfluffybritches 
#1 ·
My horse has had xrays done last month and the report shows the left fore a -2 and the RF at plus 7. 5 degrees is normal, I am told.

This may be a dumb question, but my vet wouldn't comment on it. Could angles like these cause tendon and muscle tension at higher levels (fetlock, pastern and knee into the shoulder) and then set the stage for a soft tissue injury??
 
#3 ·
I know!!! I keep thinking that's why he is still unsound even after all the joint blocks. The tendon has been shortened somehow that the joint block cannot show a soundness when anaethestisized (sp). The vet ruled out the disparity of the angles, because with the hoof blocked and the pastern blocked--there was no change in soundness.

My coach thinks we won't really know til a 2-3 shoeing cycle has taken place. My worry is if it IS a high in the forearm soft tissue injury, can the next block really find it.
 
#5 ·
I always recomeend when there is hard to pinpoint lameness present and there are confirmed big hoof isssues to not spend too much time or money tryibg to track down causes or treat it till the feet are fixed. Its often a waste of time because fixing the feet fixes the problem. Imbalance and bad angles are a huge cause of body sorenesss, lameness that cant be pinpointed etc. It csn throw the body extremely out of whack from compensation. If you want to do something, chiro massage and acupuncture with some stretching might be prudent while the horse heals and gets back even.
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#12 ·
Was the rotation of the coffin bones measured from the dorsal wall or the ground surface? That's important. If was from the dorsal wall, 7.5 is a LOT.

I also don't understand a minus on one and a plus on the other? I see you are in the UK, so maybe your measuring methods are different from our U.S. vets???

I always recomeend when there is hard to pinpoint lameness present and there are confirmed big hoof isssues to not spend too much time or money tryibg to track down causes or treat it till the feet are fixed. Its often a waste of time because fixing the feet fixes the problem. Imbalance and bad angles are a huge cause of body sorenesss, lameness that cant be pinpointed etc. It csn throw the body extremely out of whack from compensation. If you want to do something, chiro massage and acupuncture with some stretching might be prudent while the horse heals and gets back even.
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^^^^All that. ESPECIALLY the part about the horse learning to compensate for hoof soreness and ultimately throwing its body out of whack.

I have a horse who initially had a fractured sacrum. Then he foundered from his insulin issues. Then the rehab farrier cut his heels too short in one strike and literally tore his ligaments:shock:

He's alive and walking sound today but that was in contention a year ago. He has seen an equine chiropractor no less than six times in 12 months to help keep his body in alignment while he heals.

Always a few days AFTER he's been trimmed so the adjustment matches freshly balanced hooves.
 
#6 ·
It is so frustrating. I have seen the right pastern angle become straighter since about March. In trot the fetlock does not extend, or bend, the same amount of angle that the left fore does. My vet is a nice guy, but I don't think he really sees this as part of the equation.

So if I decide to give my horse time off to heal, any suggestions as to how much time? Hand walking? No hills? Would I 'test' his soundness from time to time, like lungeing after xx days after shoeing?

We do have a chiropractor we use, and I would consider an acupuncturist.
I do massage, and have found a big gnarly lump on the right forearm 4-5 inches below the junction of the shoulder and the radius. I will continue to check the entire shoulder complex into the rear pastern. TIA!
 
#7 ·
Id stretch the horse daily and massage since you can and maybe pony him a bit or go for walks as you think he is able. Movement can help healing and rehab and since nothing is pinpointed despite lots of testing and blocks, id highly suspect the foot issues as affecting his body above and likely.treat it as such myself. You know your horse. Go with you gut in this case.
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#9 ·
7 degrees is a lot

If low nerve blocks show no difference in soundness, that should tell you the problem is high.

What did you find up high that could contribute to soreness? A knot on the right side.

The right foot is steeper, (and likely narrower) which tells us it's not bearing as much weight.

So based on what I've read here, there's been an injury on the right side that's making your horse club-footed
 
#11 ·
It's actually 9 degrees. I wrote that '5' is considered the normal angle according to the vet, and we are at -2 and +7!

Today I massaged both shoulders for the compensation patterns and found each one had fibrous tissue at the triceps, biceps and part of the delt muscle. As well, I found a particularly responsive spot way up at the rhomboids near the top of the shoulder/wither....that elicited very happy head nodding in ectasy.

The vet said the spaces between the bones looked good, the only thing was a small amount of vascularization (new blood vessels forming) at the medial sesamoid bone - but that blocked out ok anyway.

The vet suggested I go higher for another block (referred me to another vet out of town) along with ultrasound image. We've already gone as high as the knee, so I am taking Trinity's advice and letting things cool down and let the shoeing shifts
re-establish balance. Thanks for all your suggestions!
 
#14 ·
Yeah I'd be more concerned about the -2 than th 7 deg, and would want to be working with a body worker, not just trying to change his feet. Wedge padding under the frog(not heel walls) of the low heel would one measure I would consider.
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