Can a farrier cause a horrse to become thin-soled? - Page 2
 
 

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Can a farrier cause a horrse to become thin-soled?

This is a discussion on Can a farrier cause a horrse to become thin-soled? within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category

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        09-20-2013, 09:33 PM
      #11
    Yearling
    Thanks for the information everyone.

    As this is not my horse I do not feel comfortable sharing pictures of him, regardless of whether it's just his feet or not, but I appreciate everyone's advice and input!
         
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        10-11-2013, 07:15 AM
      #12
    Started
    Open mouth, insert hoof? I've been happily reading the barefoot trim sites, whence I got the info that I shared in my prior post, yet we seem to have a disagreement on that, from a farrier with his own site: Lee Stanek, horsemanpro.com. He says that the hoof wall IS supposed to take most of the weight, & not the sole! I'm inclined to believe him, because of his example given that Arabs have deep cups (weight bears on strong walls, not the soles).

    Otoh, there are so many horses whose hooves have been restored via the barefoot trims, right?

    Then there's the issue of trying to get more info from either side without getting your head bitten off - lol!

    Anyway, at this point, I must retract my positive statement that the entire sole should bear as much weight as the walls, and my final answer right now is, "I dunno".
         
        10-11-2013, 12:17 PM
      #13
    Yearling
    Northern, really like what you said. I agree. Logically, hoof wall is hard, sole is not, frogs are not. I think the higher power meant the horse to use the hard parts for ground contact. I have seen on the barefoot trims from the best schools leave a smidge more wall so the sole and frog are getting a workout, but not necessarily touching the ground. The hoof "give" on impact is the healthy "pump".

    I think most people here are true barefoot people who trim a horse to a balanced healthy foot, but in every group , there's the overzealous who think more is better: more sole contact, huge "mustang rolls". I wish they would change the name from "mustang roll" to "applying a healthy breakover".

    Truth of the matter is you have to be honest with yourself about what your horse needs, whether it's unshod or shod, booted or padded, and not force your horse into an ideal - at the expense of the horse's comfort.

    Could be that the OP's horse , competing at a higher level, may benefit from shoes to prevent ouchiness that may interfere with consistency of performance.

    Sorry to ramble, Northern, educating yourself is not plain "I dunno", it's "I dunno, but willing to learn more and ponder ".
         
        10-11-2013, 04:50 PM
      #14
    Started
    Princess, you want me to keep researching? :) That's fine, because I, myself want to; in fact, I hate not knowing something about horsies!

    So, I went to the authority for everything, wiki, :), & it has a pretty good article on hoof mechanism & an objective rundown of traditional vs barefoot movement, 3 good reasons why traditional hasn't bought barefoot. (man-made surfaces, added weight of rider/tack, more strenuous and/or dicey work, esp jumping & racing) Lee is in the traditional camp.

    Wiki article also discusses the dilation of hoof upon loading, as you mentioned, princess, & I agree that this seems to be the way the Creator intended: wall taking most of the load, which causes dilation of wall to bring frog & sole into contact with ground momentarily. The frog's function of pumping blood back to heart is only activated by contact with ground, so frog is meant to make contact.

    Lee tells about paring out a tiny bit of sole which caused an immediate relief to a horse, so "no good can come from paring sole" isn't true in all cases!

    I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, as you suggested, princess. Fascinating stuff, the hooves!
         
        10-11-2013, 08:39 PM
      #15
    Weanling
    So, what is a "false sole?" Does such a thing exist, and if it does, does it need to be shed off or pared out?
         
        10-11-2013, 10:27 PM
      #16
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Northern    
    Princess, you want me to keep researching? :) That's fine, because I, myself want to; in fact, I hate not knowing something about horsies!

    So, I went to the authority for everything, wiki, :), & it has a pretty good article on hoof mechanism & an objective rundown of traditional vs barefoot movement, 3 good reasons why traditional hasn't bought barefoot. (man-made surfaces, added weight of rider/tack, more strenuous and/or dicey work, esp jumping & racing) Lee is in the traditional camp.

    Wiki article also discusses the dilation of hoof upon loading, as you mentioned, princess, & I agree that this seems to be the way the Creator intended: wall taking most of the load, which causes dilation of wall to bring frog & sole into contact with ground momentarily. The frog's function of pumping blood back to heart is only activated by contact with ground, so frog is meant to make contact.

    Lee tells about paring out a tiny bit of sole which caused an immediate relief to a horse, so "no good can come from paring sole" isn't true in all cases!

    I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, as you suggested, princess. Fascinating stuff, the hooves!

    Wow, all that info from Wiki??? I think hooves are fascinating , too. 7 years of sucking up information, and still learning. The last barn I was at thought I was weird and couldn't possibly know better than the rotten farrier they have. At this new place, people are more curious than anything. I'm working once a week with the farrier that comes. His trims have no bells and whistles, but his trim is right on. Except I would relieve the quarters. He's taught me better ways to hold the tools. He rolls the edges, and doesn't scalp all the sole protection away. He's watching me level heels, something which I was always a bit thrown off about.

    Traditional vs. Barefoot? Just give the horse what he needs!
    Northern likes this.
         
        10-11-2013, 11:50 PM
      #17
    Trained
    Hmm, yes, wiki has a HEAP of info on all sorts... Just not necessarily very accurate or right. No time for detail now but if the hoof wall was made to bear whole weight, why does it distort under load? That wud also make the domestic horse the only animal in the world(inc other equids n feral horses) evolved to walk on its toenails. As ungulates all have very similar hoof design, how would that be logical? & why wud Mother Nature/god create an animal whose base of the foot isn't designed to bear weight?
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        10-12-2013, 02:11 AM
      #18
    Yearling
    I dunno, LOL . I believe that the wall flexes, allowed by the frog, and limited by the bars. I believe that the frog makes contact with the ground, but does not bear enough weight to make any difference to the weight the wall is bearing. I don't see the sole bearing enough weight to make a difference, possibly just enough ground contact for the horse to feel it's feet, since the sole is sensitive and the wall is not. In fact, isn't a nice concave sole what we strive for? I would think that the hoof flexes on contact with the ground to allow the frog and sole to touch down and let the horse try to figure out what he's walking on, and esp for shock absorption.

    I find that probably til the day I die, my knowledge will grow, my ideas may change, and I will laugh at myself at least 100 times for feeling really dumb.
    LOL
         
        10-12-2013, 03:21 AM
      #19
    Trained
    [QUOTE=princessfluffybritches;3847801] I believe that the frog makes contact with the ground, but does not bear enough weight to make any difference [\quote]

    Why do you suppose that's not the case for feral arid environ horses & donkeys - & other equids - then? Why would they have such huge, well developed, weight bearing heels?

    [quote]enough ground contact for the horse to feel it's feet, since the sole is sensitive and the wall is not. In fact, isn't a nice concave sole what we strive for? [\Quote]

    As with your own skin, if its not well 'used' it will be thinner, softer & more sensitive. Frogs are most full of neurotransmitters for feeling/proprioception. And striving for concavity? That would depend IMO on environment & type of horse, etc.

    Quote:
    I find that probably til the day I die, my knowledge will grow, my ideas may change, and I will laugh at myself at least 100 times for feeling really dumb.
    LOL
    Haha! Yes, conceivably one day we'll know it all, but there's still so much to learn isn't there?? Best thing everyone can do is keep learning, analysing what we 'know' & are told, & keep open minds! On that note, as its a common belief, interested to hear arguments about peripheral loading, just haven't heard any rational ones so far. Unfortunately one of Australia's top hoof-spurts has logical arguments such as 'its intuitively obvious' ... Which isn't a rational reason IMO!
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        10-12-2013, 03:35 AM
      #20
    Started
    Where did gottatrot go? Had some good stuff on the bars pushing up into the capsule & how to fix that.
         

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