Can a farrier cause a horrse to become thin-soled? - Page 4
 
 

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Can a farrier cause a horrse to become thin-soled?

This is a discussion on Can a farrier cause a horrse to become thin-soled? within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Can thin soles on horse hoof cause lamness

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    10-15-2013, 08:44 PM
  #31
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern    
If wall isn't supposed to carry most of weight, as opposed to sole, why is it that in the old days when some horses' jobs were to walk/trot cobblestone streets, they were shod (so no sole ever touched ground) & worked for decades without a problem?
I don't believe the sole is supposed to bear most of the load as opposed to the walls really either. However if you said the heels/frog...

Lameness, breakdown & early 'retirement' was also common. 'Navicular disease' for eg, has long been recognised as a common problem of domestic horses, especially those worked hard on paved roads. And of course many people, for eg, can smoke heavily for decades without getting lung cancer either, but that doesn't mean smoking is proven safe & right. So I would ask for evidence before jumping to that conclusion for a start, to consider the differences between those horses with *apparently* no problem. The claims that conventional shoes are implicated with some of these 'problems' and egs of horses shod differently being more sound is not a new idea either. Unfortunately there has been little real evidence to go on - one way or the other & I believe there is still so much we don't understand. But from current research into hoof function, as well as countless egs, I do believe peripheral loading is a major factor and should be looked into much more objectively.

FWIW, I don't think there's any evidence either, that horses in various domestic situations should necessarily have feet like a desert mustang, for eg degree of concavity. That doesn't strike me as logical either, let alone the apparently wide held assumption that feral horses all have good, sound feet - ferals can have very different feet in different environments and are not without problems too. But there is so much we have learned, and can learn more, in considering what Mother Nature gave the horse & how it works, & the differences between hooves that function soundly & optimally compared to the 'problem' ones.
     
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    10-15-2013, 09:04 PM
  #32
Started
Ok, thanks, loosie.

I was thinking that there are 4 main types of ground for horses:

1. Soft & wet/damp (marshy fields & snow).
2. Soft & dry - sand & turf when dry
3. Hard, dry & smooth - man-made surfaces (pavement, cobblestones, etc. & hard-pack such as on dirt road).
4. Hard, dry & "pokey" - rocky terrain, gravel.

If we take a horse & give her sufficient time on each surface, what changes would her hooves make on each?

Also, what differences would there be in the changes between different breeds? Between different individuals within a breed?

Lee says that the Arabians (lots of sand) have deeply cupped hooves, whereas tb's have flat ones, due to being on soft pasture, & horses who've been on really marshy ground get really big flat feet.
     
    10-15-2013, 10:32 PM
  #33
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern    
If we take a horse & give her sufficient time on each surface, what changes would her hooves make on each?
Of course there are other factors such as diet & exercise, and what state those hooves were in when you put them in a certain environment. But generally, horses on hard surfaces will wear their walls to at/near level with the sole on the ground surface, while horses in soft environments can(should?) manage with longer walls. Horses on hard, flat ground tend to have more 'filled in' feet to horses that are on rough/yielding surfaces. Bare horses with longer walls will chip, split, break off wall(which if designed to be loaded shouldn't happen), whereas short walled, mustang rolled hooves tend to cope fine on this footing. Flat pavement is not generally a problem for horses that aren't peripherally loaded either.

Quote:
Lee says that the Arabians (lots of sand) have deeply cupped hooves, whereas tb's have flat ones, due to being on soft pasture, & horses who've been on really marshy ground get really big flat feet.
Yep, that's the case alright. As TBs have an awful lot of arab blood & came out of that breed, I don't know that that's the best eg of genetic differences, but yes, different breeds do tend to have slightly different hoof form - like I said, not at all dismissing the genetic argument outright, just don't feel it's a big factor - but how much is it about the environment?

What does it mean that you can change the environment of a horse & it will change the form of it's hoof? One recent study(we won't go into ethics, etc...) on this was done by the Australian Brumby Research mob, where they took a brumby mare from a 'cushy' soft, well fed environment and put her out in the central desert(somewhere near Alice) to join a mob of ferals there. She apparently did it really tough for a while, wasn't up to keeping up with the locals, but eventually she adapted & when they caught her many months later, she had developed the short, tough, 'rock crunching' sound feet of her new band.

There have also been many egs of domestic horses with problem feet/chronic lameness coming good in different environments/management, of various breeds. For eg explorers & stockmen in the outback who have had to leave lame beasts behind, only to find them months or years later, sound & well, as well as countless 'strong footed'(supposedly genetically stronger) ferals developing the myriad of 'domestic' problems when kept/worked in that environment.

I find the genetic argument about ferals also unlikely, when you consider that in Australia at least, they are - or at least recently(far too recent for evolution) were - domestic stock. Even to this day, horses are released to breed, released because no longer needed, or not yet needed, etc. Somewhere(I forget where) in the mountains not far from here, there are mobs of tough footed, chunky, palomino brumbies, because someone released a load of Haflingers a couple of generations back The same for the clydie type horses from the NT...
     
    10-16-2013, 04:08 AM
  #34
Started
I found a neat site, the Weltz site (last name of the couple), & there's a pic there of a feral South American horse that's the trippiest hoof I've ever seen! Its terrain is soft, & it looks to have super high heels & heel platforms, then a straight step down to a flat, large sole even with the wall. Looks like split-level hooves - lol!

Also, in looking at more pics, I see lots of variation in mustang hooves: one was practically flat, with the frog at same level as sole, & commisures nonexistent, but the wall roll was there. Then others have more concavity, commisures lower & frog higher than sole.
loosie likes this.
     
    10-16-2013, 04:41 AM
  #35
Super Moderator
I haven't read all the posts yet, but diet has a huge impact on sole thickness as do metabolic issues. A farrier can par a sole away if he does so on each trimming.

Mineral imbalance can also be crucial, iron blocks zinc and copper uptake which can have an effect on some horses ability to grow a thicker sole.
     
    10-20-2013, 11:21 AM
  #36
Yearling
Quote:
they were shod (so no sole ever touched ground) & worked for decades without a problem?
They did not work for 'decades'. Most were broke down and retired in their mid to late teens with ringbone, sidebone and other lameness issues. Just like the current Amish type shod horses who trot on pavement with just the shod hoof wall on the ground. ( thick shoes and nothing supporting the frogs)
loosie likes this.
     
    10-21-2013, 02:34 PM
  #37
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
I don't believe the sole is supposed to bear most of the load as opposed to the walls really either. However if you said the heels/frog...

Lameness, breakdown & early 'retirement' was also common. 'Navicular disease' for eg, has long been recognised as a common problem of domestic horses, especially those worked hard on paved roads. And of course many people, for eg, can smoke heavily for decades without getting lung cancer either, but that doesn't mean smoking is proven safe & right. So I would ask for evidence before jumping to that conclusion for a start, to consider the differences between those horses with *apparently* no problem. The claims that conventional shoes are implicated with some of these 'problems' and egs of horses shod differently being more sound is not a new idea either. Unfortunately there has been little real evidence to go on - one way or the other & I believe there is still so much we don't understand. But from current research into hoof function, as well as countless egs, I do believe peripheral loading is a major factor and should be looked into much more objectively.

FWIW, I don't think there's any evidence either, that horses in various domestic situations should necessarily have feet like a desert mustang, for eg degree of concavity. That doesn't strike me as logical either, let alone the apparently wide held assumption that feral horses all have good, sound feet - ferals can have very different feet in different environments and are not without problems too. But there is so much we have learned, and can learn more, in considering what Mother Nature gave the horse & how it works, & the differences between hooves that function soundly & optimally compared to the 'problem' ones.
Good explanation!
     

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