Club foot & toe/frog dimensions - Page 2
 
 

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Club foot & toe/frog dimensions

This is a discussion on Club foot & toe/frog dimensions within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Club foot horse toe callus
  • Leave long hoof heals on club foot

 
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    02-29-2012, 11:17 PM
  #11
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoyPuck    
What do you think about that toe? Would you still bring that back, or acknowledge club foot and leave it long?
You made me log back in.

As for the toe, looking at just a solar pic., I'd put a good roll in it just forward of the frog w/o taking any length. There may be some wall to dress back as well, but w/o foot in hand it is hard to say.
     
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    03-06-2012, 12:00 AM
  #12
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoyPuck    
I know with a normal hoof, the "halfway" mark is from about an inch behind the apex of the frog to the toe. Anything longer than that would suggest a long or flared toe.

What about a club foot? I have been taking weekly pics of my horse's club foot since pulling his shoes. I was expecting to see the heels de-contract and the hoof begin to take on a more round shape.
There is little point in comparing a club foot to a non-club with any expectation of similar landmarks. A club is a congenital/sepsis/trauma induced condition that cannot "correct", regardless protocol.

Quote:
Instead I'm seeing a hoof that is becoming more oval and elongated.
Reasonably expected outcome. You cannot add mass/volume via trimming and therefore cannot exceed the physical parameter limits of the insensitive hoof capsule in any attempt to further alter mechanical breakover, support or phalangeal alignment

Quote:
The heel is actually coming further back, while the toe length is getting longer.
The only way to increase the base of support on a barefoot club is to remove material (e.g. Lower the heels). Do so and the already functionally shortened deep digital flexor musculotendonous structure increases pull on the distal phalanx, further compressing the vascular bed under the solar margin of P3, further compromising solar depth. The only advantage is reduced strain on the suspensory extensors and superficial digital tendon. Long term likely effect... demineralization and remodeling of the solar margin of P3.

Quote:
The weird thing is, from looking at it from a side view, it would not be evident that is happening under there. The toe does not appear to be flared, the hoof still looks very much upright, and the toe callous is right at the edge of the toe.
It's not "weird", it is typical of a horse presenting this condition. There is no equine anatomical structure called a "toe callous". Said "callous" is more likely a physiologic response to environment and pressure on solar tissues.

Quote:
My question is, do you encourage a known abnormal foot to take on a normal shape?
What's "normal" for a horse presenting a club foot?

Quote:
Is it normal for a club foot to assume a more oval shape?
Nope. If it does, it wasn't a club foot to begin with.

Quote:
It all seems to be working just fine for him, so I don't want to force something that might never happen when it's working just fine for now.
While it may be working "just fine for him", there are unfortunate, long term deleterious results of the mechanics associated with a club foot. One can significantly prolong such results via various protocol management methodologies, but the end game is invariably predictable and unavoidable.

Time is a predator, DDFT pull is relentless and once a club, always a club, regardless our visual perception, hopes or desires.

Cheers,
Mark
     
    03-06-2012, 12:10 AM
  #13
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseman56    

While it may be working "just fine for him", there are unfortunate, long term deleterious results of the mechanics associated with a club foot. One can significantly prolong such results via various protocol management methodologies, but the end game is invariably predictable and unavoidable.

Time is a predator, DDFT pull is relentless and once a club, always a club, regardless our visual perception, hopes or desires.

Cheers,
Mark
No I disagree. They can be fixed
     
    03-06-2012, 08:07 PM
  #14
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
No I disagree. They can be fixed
No sir, this isn't a point of debate.

If the condition is a true, congenital defect, it cannot be permanently corrected. You can manage the problem; you can create a visual illusion that the problem has been corrected, but you cannot "fix" a true club foot.

Want proof. Trim/shoe/whatever a club footed horse until you think you have it "fixed". Now let it go for 10 weeks. That clubbed foot will return in all its glory, every time, with no exceptions.

If it doesn't, it wasn't a congenital club foot to begin with.

Farriers cannot alter congenital conformation defects beyond the first 6-9 months of a horses life and often, we fail to do so even in those early months.

While there is certainly room for debate/disagreement in many areas of farriery, this isn't one of them. If one does disagree with the assertion that a club foot cannot be fixed, it doesn't mean they have a differing opinion. It means they are wrong.

Cheers,
Mark
     
    03-06-2012, 10:36 PM
  #15
Trained
I'm still not convinced I'm dealing with a true club foot. Everyone sees a high/low and automatically calls the high a club when all that actually happened was a long legged horse with a short neck needed a way to graze more comfortably. I'm just going to keep going with our strategy of trimming back to the white line and see how it evolves.
     
    03-06-2012, 10:58 PM
  #16
Foal
So I'm not really all up to date on farrier terms but my my previous horse, when shoes were removed in front, would have what appeared to be (at first) a clubbed foot. What it really was, was that his feet would go back to assuming two different shapes. One would spread and the other would stay narrow. It didn't matter how much work he was in or how active he was in the field, his feet wouldn't even out. We went about two shoeings working with the farrier and the vet trying to make it work, until he actually looked like he had two different hooves! Again, one grew mainly tall and one grew wide. So eventually for fear of injury we put shoes back on him to even him out again (which they did). There's only so much you can do to control the shape of a hoof without shoes.
     
    03-07-2012, 01:42 PM
  #17
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseman56    
No sir, this isn't a point of debate.

If the condition is a true, congenital defect, it cannot be permanently corrected. You can manage the problem; you can create a visual illusion that the problem has been corrected, but you cannot "fix" a true club foot.

Want proof. Trim/shoe/whatever a club footed horse until you think you have it "fixed". Now let it go for 10 weeks. That clubbed foot will return in all its glory, every time, with no exceptions.

If it doesn't, it wasn't a congenital club foot to begin with.

Farriers cannot alter congenital conformation defects beyond the first 6-9 months of a horses life and often, we fail to do so even in those early months.

While there is certainly room for debate/disagreement in many areas of farriery, this isn't one of them. If one does disagree with the assertion that a club foot cannot be fixed, it doesn't mean they have a differing opinion. It means they are wrong.

Cheers,
Mark
Nope I guarantee it and put it in writing. I can fix them, they won't go back clubbed. (providing the horse is sound) Sometimes the hardest thing about shoeing is recognizing the obvious
     

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