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This is a discussion on Cracking within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Hoof cracking inhereted

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    03-01-2012, 09:42 AM
  #11
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
Agree basically with everything said, except that I think hoopla is assuming & judging unfairly. Perhaps you know the people personally hoopla, but if not, who are you to say you 'don't buy it' based just on OP's post??
It's a forum people have opinions and I formed mine on the basis of what was said and not on any presumptions or personal knowledge.

We were told "They inherited three horses when they bought the land so they're doing the best they can by them."

The reason I said I don't buy that is that when you buy land you pay money and you enter into a contract to buy ..... LAND.

If you're told you get 20 elephants, 4 goats, 3 horses and a dinosaur thrown in and you really don't think you have the wit and wherewithall to manage all that you just say "forget those, I don't want that lot"

Neither do I buy they're doing their best because they've at least one that's grossly obese wondering around free feeding on acreage and despite a serious chronic condition.

Quote:
Many people have the best of intentions but lack the knowledge(or are advised badly) to provide appropriate care. If you don't know what you don't know & have no one to advise you otherwise, I don't think getting blamed for your ignorance is fair or reasonable.
Interesting. But not something I'm ever going to agree with.

As far as I'm concerned just knowing how to feed and care for a horse so that it's not grossly obese and to such an extent that it's pedal bone is rotating and it's bones are sinking and likely going to come out of the sole of it's feet is pretty darned basic stuff.

However even if I were to ASSUME for a moment that the owner was so ignorant that they didn't appreciate that feed and hoof management might be something to think about and consider, then I'm not buying that AFTER the horse has foundered they've still got it grossly obese and with poor feet.

Never come across a vet or farrier yet that treats a horse without mentioning what's wrong and charging with an itemised bill for putting it right.

So in my considered opinion born from fact, ignorance is a state that can easily and readily be remedied by education and just a teensy weensy bit of reading and learning. If you really can't be bothered to address the matter of "ignorance" then when it comes to horses you either know you just shouldn't own one OR you pay someone who isn't ignorant to be responsible for day to day management and hence ensure the horse you've just decided to take on is properly and responsibly cared for. Except in this case it was 3 horses.

Providing basic care and ensuring a horse isn't suffering is in my opinion not something you "try". You either get it right or you don't. There's no such thing as "trying" when it comes to feeding a horse appropriately and managing it well.

Quote:
Based on what furbaby has told, I think they & their neighbours are probably doing the best with the knowledge they have and should be supported in that, especially that they're asking for help & advice(even if it's here, when I think you'd be better forgetting the forums in favour of a good equine vet & rehabilitation specialist)
Well IMO you're doing a lot of assuming there.

Based on what the OP told us we're advised that her neighbours decided to take possession of 3 horses even though they hadn't got a clue what to do with them. They went on to cause horrendous suffering by getting (at least) one of them grossly obese and to such an extent that it founders. They never trained it. They kept it fat and with cracked poor feet and now they're going to pass it over to their next door neighbour who seems to think that you can put something topical on the feet to make them better.

I don't "enable" bad behaviour by supporting it and pretending that something is "trying" (and failing) to do a good job. I care not whether you agree or hold different opinion.
     
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    03-01-2012, 04:52 PM
  #12
Weanling
They have the vet out regularly and she was trimmed. She had boots on for awhile, but is now barefoot, and is kept in a dry lot during spring and summer. My main concern is that my acerage is fairly rocky on a particular downhill slope. She had a few chips and a crack. Nothing that seems to be effecting her negatively but something I thought I should probably address.

They've had the horses less than a year. She has lost 200lbs since they took charge of her. As far as wandering the acerage there is nothing to eat. It's pretty much a dry lot on both of our 80 acres, just a few weeds here and there. We are hoping to plant his acerage this year and mine next year, swapping the horses between while the grass grows.

I appreciate the support. They have been seeking professionals but now that she's on my property I thought I'd gather some opinions on what I could do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
Hmm, yeah, but I think in this litiginous(sp?) society, it needs serious consideration unfortunately. Agree with lilbit about written agreements & I'd be inclined to try to help the horse & keep written records of everything including reasons for doing what you're doing.

Agree basically with everything said, except that I think hoopla is assuming & judging unfairly. Perhaps you know the people personally hoopla, but if not, who are you to say you 'don't buy it' based just on OP's post?? Many people have the best of intentions but lack the knowledge(or are advised badly) to provide appropriate care. If you don't know what you don't know & have no one to advise you otherwise, I don't think getting blamed for your ignorance is fair or reasonable. Based on what furbaby has told, I think they & their neighbours are probably doing the best with the knowledge they have and should be supported in that, especially that they're asking for help & advice(even if it's here, when I think you'd be better forgetting the forums in favour of a good equine vet & rehabilitation specialist)

IMO the horse needs a vet(& rads), farrier, strict diet(without starving it), free movement & exercise, & hoof protection in the form of padded boots or such, if it's not comfortable in it's environment. IMO your neighbours - & you if you want to take the horse on - need to do some serious research. I'd advise first-hand expert help, but to get you started, safergrass.org & hoofrehab.com will give you some good info to go on with. If you can't/don't want to put in the necessary effort, well, you know what they say about the road to hell & good intentions.... in that case, I'd agree with Mark & not touch it. I'd also be concerned for the other horses in your neighbour's care.
     
    03-01-2012, 05:01 PM
  #13
Weanling
I'm afraid you are the one doing the assuming here Hoopla. They bought the acerage next to us to put a house on, it currently doesn't have one. At closing they were told the people were leaving the horses and everything that goes with them on the acerage. So, yes, they could have said no, get rid of it. They didn't and they've taken incredible initiative. The horse was grossly obese BEFORE they got it. They are working on getting it healthy again. They are the ones bringing the vet and farrier out. They are the ones that created a fenced dry lot when the vet told them the horse was foundering. They paid for the boots the horse wore until it's feet were healthy enough to carry it's weight. They've really done a tremendous job with what was a horrible situation to inheret. The 2 other horses are in their 30's and require special diets to keep their weight up. My neighbors are loving and good souls. They could have sold all 3 horses to slaughter (because let's face it no one is going to take on 2 30 year old horses and a 6 year old maybe green broke mare with such deplorable health). They lent me their mare and now that I'm the one with her I want to continue the good work.
As far as how little I feed her. It does feel like very very little. My gelding is a 15hh skinny rescue. I feed him A LOT. She is a 12-13hh overweight mare. What they each get fed is drastically different.
You can take your judgment elsewhere thankyouverymuch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopla    
It's a forum people have opinions and I formed mine on the basis of what was said and not on any presumptions or personal knowledge.

We were told "They inherited three horses when they bought the land so they're doing the best they can by them."

The reason I said I don't buy that is that when you buy land you pay money and you enter into a contract to buy ..... LAND.

If you're told you get 20 elephants, 4 goats, 3 horses and a dinosaur thrown in and you really don't think you have the wit and wherewithall to manage all that you just say "forget those, I don't want that lot"

Neither do I buy they're doing their best because they've at least one that's grossly obese wondering around free feeding on acreage and despite a serious chronic condition.

Interesting. But not something I'm ever going to agree with.

As far as I'm concerned just knowing how to feed and care for a horse so that it's not grossly obese and to such an extent that it's pedal bone is rotating and it's bones are sinking and likely going to come out of the sole of it's feet is pretty darned basic stuff.

However even if I were to ASSUME for a moment that the owner was so ignorant that they didn't appreciate that feed and hoof management might be something to think about and consider, then I'm not buying that AFTER the horse has foundered they've still got it grossly obese and with poor feet.

Never come across a vet or farrier yet that treats a horse without mentioning what's wrong and charging with an itemised bill for putting it right.

So in my considered opinion born from fact, ignorance is a state that can easily and readily be remedied by education and just a teensy weensy bit of reading and learning. If you really can't be bothered to address the matter of "ignorance" then when it comes to horses you either know you just shouldn't own one OR you pay someone who isn't ignorant to be responsible for day to day management and hence ensure the horse you've just decided to take on is properly and responsibly cared for. Except in this case it was 3 horses.

Providing basic care and ensuring a horse isn't suffering is in my opinion not something you "try". You either get it right or you don't. There's no such thing as "trying" when it comes to feeding a horse appropriately and managing it well.

Well IMO you're doing a lot of assuming there.

Based on what the OP told us we're advised that her neighbours decided to take possession of 3 horses even though they hadn't got a clue what to do with them. They went on to cause horrendous suffering by getting (at least) one of them grossly obese and to such an extent that it founders. They never trained it. They kept it fat and with cracked poor feet and now they're going to pass it over to their next door neighbour who seems to think that you can put something topical on the feet to make them better.

I don't "enable" bad behaviour by supporting it and pretending that something is "trying" (and failing) to do a good job. I care not whether you agree or hold different opinion.
     
    03-01-2012, 05:43 PM
  #14
Trained
Well your username is appropriate hoopla! You have assumed & judged that these people are abusing the horse without any rational reason whatsoever. You have assumed they have not bothered to do anything about the situation. You have assumed they have not consulted vets, farriers, whatever. You have assumed they didn't just get the land/horses a couple of months ago. You have assumed they caused the whole situation & are in ignorance about it. You have assumed it wasn't something like a choice of 'inheriting' the horses or having them sent to a knackery.... I also don't know what planet you live on, that you haven't noticed that obesity & lack of understanding about the health implications of it are endemic in the horse world, even among 'experienced', or that there is still a lot of ignorance, misinformation & misunderstanding about the causes & treatment of founder.

IF all your assumptions are right, then I'd agree with you fully. I also don't think that 'the best they can do' is necessarily good enough for an animal, but it would be another unfounded assumption to judge them lacking & cruel without more info.

So you're entitled to your unfounded opinions, but it would be smarter, as well as nicer to be rational & reasonable if you're going to voice them. I get that you 'care not', about other's opinions, so I'm guessing your reasons for being here must be because you just enjoy being an antagonist.

Quote:
Quote:
Based on what furbaby has told, I think they & their neighbours are probably doing the best with the knowledge they have and should be supported in that, especially that they're asking for help & advice(even if it's here, when I think you'd be better forgetting the forums in favour of a good equine vet & rehabilitation specialist)
Well IMO you're doing a lot of assuming there.
You've got me there - I should have said *I like to think...* because how can I know they're doing their best any more than you know they're doing their worst. But I like to treat people charitably & fairly & give them benefit of doubt, not automatically assume the worst.
     
    03-01-2012, 05:56 PM
  #15
Trained
Quote:
So in my considered opinion born from fact, ignorance is a state that can easily and readily be remedied by education and just a teensy weensy bit of reading and learning. If you really can't be bothered to address the matter of "ignorance" then when it comes to horses you either know you just shouldn't own one OR you pay someone who isn't ignorant to be responsible
Forgot to comment on that important bit. I agree 1000% with that - please read my last sentence to OP. But again, the planet you're on obviously doesn't have the common problems we see on this one, time & again, from 'newbies' trusting the wrong 'experts', so I believe it is only fair to exercise benefit of doubt there too.

Actually when I think about it, my biggest learning curves(not just about horses) have come after something goes wrong & I come to see it was because 'expert' advice was incorrect or what people told me was adequate knowledge was anything but. I first got into farriery decades ago & was told by the 'experts' I consulted & learned from that I was good enough. Hindsight has now taught me that perhaps those experts shouldn't have been allowed near hooves either, if they judged me adequate.
     

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