Diagnose these hooves?! Lameness problems :D - Page 3 - The Horse Forum

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post #21 of 81 Old 07-29-2014, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rialto View Post
Hard to tell from the pictures, but is the apex (tip) of the frog a loose tag, or is the entire frog rotated/twisted? Is that just on the front right foot, or both?

It's interesting to me that the medial heel grows back faster than the rest of the foot - this makes me think that the horse needs that extra growth there. By trimming a horses foot to look a certain way (or so that it doesn't toe in or out, etc), you can actually do more harm than good. Rarely is it just the hoof capsule that is affected in a crooked limb - by changing the shape and structure of the foot, you are affecting the bony column, as well as all of its ligaments, tendons, soft tissue, etc.

The heels look quite long. Ideally, you want the heels to terminate at or near the last weight bearing surface of the frog to create a wide base of support at the back of the foot to encourage heel-first landings. Are any of these farriers in your area?

ELPO Membership List - Farriers
I'll have a look-see. :) Thanks. And I, too, agree about the heels. I've asked many people, and I know I asked my current farrier, and he had an answer for me... However I don't remember what that answer is. LOL
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post #22 of 81 Old 07-29-2014, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rialto View Post
Hard to tell from the pictures, but is the apex (tip) of the frog a loose tag, or is the entire frog rotated/twisted? Is that just on the front right foot, or both?

It's interesting to me that the medial heel grows back faster than the rest of the foot - this makes me think that the horse needs that extra growth there. By trimming a horses foot to look a certain way (or so that it doesn't toe in or out, etc), you can actually do more harm than good. Rarely is it just the hoof capsule that is affected in a crooked limb - by changing the shape and structure of the foot, you are affecting the bony column, as well as all of its ligaments, tendons, soft tissue, etc.

The heels look quite long. Ideally, you want the heels to terminate at or near the last weight bearing surface of the frog to create a wide base of support at the back of the foot to encourage heel-first landings. Are any of these farriers in your area?

ELPO Membership List - Farriers

Oh, and the frog is shedding, so that is a loose flap. Both frogs do grow at kind of an angle, though, but not that severe.

I looked at the list, and my call that I've made for a second opinion is on that list. He was the NB farrier I used with Flash about a year and a half ago, but hauling an hour and a half to him was tough on the schedule and budget. However, I've decided that if he can work me back in, we're going back. He trained directly under Gene Ovnecik.
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post #23 of 81 Old 07-29-2014, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by amigoboy View Post
Though your feet are in a direct line to you hip and back, the horses front legs are not directly connected to the body so transmitting pain from a bad foot to the back seems like a loooong reach.
Interesting therory, have to chew on that.
It is absolutely true that compensation ANYwhere can lead to pain issues in other parts of the body. If I am limping along on my right foot because my left foot hurts all the time that WILL affect my back...and my neck.....and my shoulders...regardless of whether they are directly connected or not. When the feet are balanced it gives the rest of the body a chance to balance out, if there are no other obstacles. (Like permanent anatomical changes) But if the feet are unbalanced the rest of the body cannot get balanced.

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Originally Posted by amigoboy View Post
Didn´t she say anyting about those feet? Looking at those last pics made my stomich do a Flipp/Flopp. Those feet need some Serious Work.
I am glad I am not the only one. I literally said "Oh my god" out loud when I saw.

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Originally Posted by smiley845 View Post

The vet didn't specifically say, "Those feet are atrocious!"

I would say it. Well, I would say the TRIM is atrocious. The feet do not seem to be beyond repair. The surprising thing to me (and this should not surprise me) is that when viewed from the outside of the hoof capsule the trim looks pretty good. Heels and toes do not seem too long, not immediate evidence of imbalance. The sole view tells a whooole different story.

What do you see judging from pics alone?

I am not an expert, not am I a pro. Take my POV with a grain of salt. I see bars that are way overgrown, which contributes to retained false sole, which means there is not a good road map come trim time. His heels are way too long, making that last weight-bearing surface way too far into the middle of the foot. Like (rialto?) said, the last weight-bearing surface SHOULD be at the widest part of the frog.
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post #24 of 81 Old 07-29-2014, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by smiley845 View Post
Oh, and the frog is shedding, so that is a loose flap. However, I've decided that if he can work me back in, we're going back. He trained directly under Gene Ovnecik.
Sounds like a plan, unless you can find someone qualified locally.
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post #25 of 81 Old 07-29-2014, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds like a plan, unless you can find someone qualified locally.
Locally? Ha! There isn't even a Walmart less than an hour away. ;)
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post #26 of 81 Old 07-29-2014, 12:39 PM
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Locally? Ha! There isn't even a Walmart less than an hour away. ;)
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Man, I really, really feel for those like you who do not have easy access to good services. I am struggling with that a little bit, where I am now. Hope you can find a solution.

P.S., I really like your horse, he is super-cute!
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post #27 of 81 Old 07-29-2014, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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Man, I really, really feel for those like you who do not have easy access to good services. I am struggling with that a little bit, where I am now. Hope you can find a solution.

P.S., I really like your horse, he is super-cute!
Thanks! Of course I agree. He's technically my daughter's horse, but really, he's my baby.
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post #28 of 81 Old 07-29-2014, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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In studying healthy frogs, I've come to the conclusion that he's likely never had completely healthy frogs... There's always been quite a bit of sensitivity in the collateral grooves and central sulcus along with constant flaps and roughness. It's never ever looked like the pictures of healthy frogs here: http://www.thehorseshoof.com/pdf_art...rogSeries1.pdf

Now to figure out how to rehab them so that we can get the heels trimmed down to a healthier angle!
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post #29 of 81 Old 07-29-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by greenhaven View Post
It is absolutely true that compensation ANYwhere can lead to pain issues in other parts of the body. If I am limping along on my right foot because my left foot hurts all the time that WILL affect my back...and my neck.....and my shoulders...regardless of whether they are directly connected or not. When the feet are balanced it gives the rest of the body a chance to balance out, if there are no other obstacles. (Like permanent anatomical changes) But if the feet are unbalanced the rest of the body cannot get balanced.



I am glad I am not the only one. I literally said "Oh my god" out loud when I saw.
Totaly understand what you are saying as I have problems with my back due to bad knees, but we are talking about a horse standing on 4 legs.
I don´t know Green, the back may be a seperate issue. I get the feeling the vet was kinda groping in the dark.
I´m not going to speculate untill x-rays come out.
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post #30 of 81 Old 07-29-2014, 04:29 PM
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Oh pish posh, speculate away! As long as any poster asking for advice understands it IS speculation.

And the same principles apply to a four-legged beast. My own horse has a permanent hitch in her right hind leg because of years of compensation for a left front shoulder injury. This, in turn, has led to long-standing issues with her sacrum. It is all related. I am not, necessarily saying that the back issue is not separate from the foot issue. Just that the possibilty that they are is entirely reasonable.

Vets do have to grope in the dark sometimes. Fixing the feet might help the back. If not, I recommend a competent chiropractor.

Get your pony to the Ovnicek trained trimmer, he should know how to deal with those bars and that sole. With as long as those bars are I would be surprised if the frog is even contacting the ground like it should. A good trim will help the frog be stimulated to better growth.
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