Do farriers refuse service because the horse doesn't stand well? - Page 4
   

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Do farriers refuse service because the horse doesn't stand well?

This is a discussion on Do farriers refuse service because the horse doesn't stand well? within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category

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        06-08-2014, 08:13 PM
      #31
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Patty, I agree with your statement entirely, but am curious about the last sentence. What does that cover, in practical terms?

    Does it mean that a farrier can't even tell a fussy or fidgety horse no? Or just that they can't lay hands (or tools) on the horse? What about swatting them on the shoulder for leaning?
    According to my farrier friends in England they say they can sharply talk to the horse, say "no" or "quit it" for example but they can not physically do anything to discipline.
    If the horse is yanking a foot or kicking at the farrier when he asks for a hind foot etc all the farrier can do is step away and tell the owner to fix it.
    The OWNER or trainer can do whatever they want to to correct the horse. But if the farrier were to whack the horse, he is breaking the law. If the farrier takes the lead rope and backs the horse up sharply or circles it, he is breaking the law. If the farrier applies a chain to the halter, he is breaking the law. Seriously.
    They are not allowed to do any of the discipline or training in the horse. All they are supposed to do is work on the feet. And I think it is a good thing because the owners will do what they should to train the horses if they want the horses feet worked on because they know the farrier is not allowed to.
         
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        06-08-2014, 08:19 PM
      #32
    Green Broke
    Interesting, Patty, can the owner/trainer/ handler give the farrier permission to reprimand the horse?
    Also, how is this law enforced? Is it up to the owner of the horse to report the farrier if he gets after the horse? Are there fines, jail time?

    I'm curious too!
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        06-08-2014, 08:31 PM
      #33
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Interesting, Patty, can the owner/trainer/ handler give the farrier permission to reprimand the horse?
    I don't know. I will have to remember to ask them if next time I see one of them. (once a year or so)
    Quote:
    Also, how is this law enforced? Is it up to the owner of the horse to report the farrier if he gets after the horse? Are there fines, jail time?
    That I also do not know . I think it is under the jurisdiction of the RSPCA . And the farrier licencing is under the Farrier Registration Council (corrected) so... Anyone here from England who can answer those?
         
        06-08-2014, 08:44 PM
      #34
    Weanling
    I found this excerpt from the FRC website. It is not written as strictly as the farriers I have spoken with implied but perhaps they simply self-maintain that strict line about disciplining horses at all to prevent any possible action against them by some horse owner or observer who is more strict in what constitutes excess discipline, and apparently complaints are filed with the FRC and they can discipline the farrier.I bolded a couple of line to highlight those part.

    Quote:
    Farriers Responsibilities to Horses

    Horse, in this context, includes pony, mule, donkey or other equine animal.

    Farriers must:

    treat all horses humanely, with respect, and with welfare as the primary consideration
    Make proper arrangements for the provision of relief (for example holiday leave or extended periods of absence) and emergency cover 
    Maintain proper standards in all equipment, including mobile forges and business premises 
    Farriers must not cause any horse to suffer by: 

    Carrying out any unnecessary action 
    Employing excessive restraint or discipline
    Failing to advise the need to call a veterinary surgeon when appropriate 
    Neglect
    Farriers are advised not to commence working with an animal if it is felt that the conditions (i.e. Present temperament of the horse or present condition the horse is kept in) are unfavourable to a successful outcome or such that they may compromise their own, or others, health and safety.
         
        06-08-2014, 08:48 PM
      #35
    Weanling
    And this should be helpful
    Dealing with Client Complaints and the FRC - Farriers Registration Council
         
        06-09-2014, 09:10 AM
      #36
    Green Broke
    read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Roux    
    Most experienced farriers will tell newer farriers, "Don't stand under bad horses."

    There is a difference between a horse that is a little wiggly, unbalanced or impatient and a horse that is actually dangerous. A bad horse can make you unable to work for weeks or even months if you get injured terribly and all those less serious battle wounds add up over 10-20-30 years. There is also usually other horses to shoe so if you have business elsewhere there is no reason to take on a dangerous client. Its also the owners job to train the horses to stand not the farriers.
    Pretty much this.

    Both of my late 20's fellas have either arthritis or a locking stifle. It takes a long time to get them trimmed. They are well mannered and try their best, but it's rough on them, standing on three legs for too long.

    The locking stifle guy gets leaned against the wall, he is licking and chewing to the point the manly-man farrier is about to tear up before he is done trimming. Another reason trims happen every four weeks, less cutting more rasping

    However, it is no farrier's job to make a dangerous horse safe to trim, it is the owner's job. It is also the owner's job to get the horse up, cleaned, and ready for it's pedicure.

    I trimmed my horses until I couldn't trim anymore. There is no way this side of the atlantic and back I would take on a nasty kicking horse the owner "just didn't know what to do with it".
    Corporal likes this.
         
        06-09-2014, 07:37 PM
      #37
    Foal
    Well Patty, the farrier that does my horses hooves does that "macho stuff" and still does a kick ass job with my horses hooves. It may be a liability but if you don't want a farrier to go catch your horse and work with it then don't give him permission, liability gone. Nearly everyone in my town uses him with dressage to roping horses. Maybe I just got lucky, who knows.
         
        06-10-2014, 12:11 AM
      #38
    Showing
    I don't think it's so much the "macho" thing as it is a knowledge thing. There are a lot of farriers I have met that know very little about actually handling a horse, especially how to train one to have their feet handled comfortably. My Dad, who is a farrier, is also a horse trainer. Has been since the '60s. He started shoeing all his own horses in the 70s when he couldn't find a farrier that did a good enough job to keep his performance horses sound.

    He's one of the rare few who are farriers and trainers. Up until just a few years ago after he had a heart attack, he would gladly take in and train or offer to shoe any "problem" horses...because he knew how to handle them and how to correct the issues. Most farriers don't have that level of knowledge base.

    It's about like going to have your car detailed by someone whose specialty is detailing cars....then proceeding to ask him to fix the unexplainable wobble in the rear wheels. That detailer is not a mechanic any more than most farriers are trainers. For that reason, it's simply unfair to just expect a farrier to handle a difficult or spoiled horse.
         
        06-10-2014, 07:45 AM
      #39
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smrobs    
    I don't think it's so much the "macho" thing as it is a knowledge thing. There are a lot of farriers I have met that know very little about actually handling a horse, especially how to train one to have their feet handled comfortably. My Dad, who is a farrier, is also a horse trainer. Has been since the '60s. He started shoeing all his own horses in the 70s when he couldn't find a farrier that did a good enough job to keep his performance horses sound.

    He's one of the rare few who are farriers and trainers. Up until just a few years ago after he had a heart attack, he would gladly take in and train or offer to shoe any "problem" horses...because he knew how to handle them and how to correct the issues. Most farriers don't have that level of knowledge base.

    It's about like going to have your car detailed by someone whose specialty is detailing cars....then proceeding to ask him to fix the unexplainable wobble in the rear wheels. That detailer is not a mechanic any more than most farriers are trainers. For that reason, it's simply unfair to just expect a farrier to handle a difficult or spoiled horse.
    Must be different in different areas, I can't think of a farrier around here who isn't a trainer or breeder. Even the very successful ones at least used to train or breed before they got too busy.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Corporal likes this.
         

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