Does anyone nip down to sole level, then just rasp to bevel? - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 32 Old 02-03-2013, 07:22 PM
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In areas where the ground is soft, it is appropriate to leave the walls a little longer than the sole.
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post #22 of 32 Old 02-03-2013, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usandpets View Post
The previous farriers would cut out some of the sole before nipping the wall. The recent farrier didn't really touch the sole so the wall didn't get cut as much, which in turn is longer than trims before. Not longer than the sole but longer than we're used to seeing after a trim. BTW, the get trimmed every 8 weeks.
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Oh I see. My trimmer never really touches the sole either, and I know there are articles saying both that you should, and you shouldn't. We've had a lot of success so far with not, but I've also gotten flack from a couple farriers for it.
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post #23 of 32 Old 02-03-2013, 07:49 PM
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Dead and false sole can usually go. (There are exceptions) It needs to go so you can determine the actual sole plane and trim to it. Live waxy sole should be left alone. Leaving dead and false sole can cause bruising. Even what I have seen people refer to as "sole callus" sometimes is harmful and throws the balance off. I don't think it is what alot of people think it is.

Assuming the horse you are trimming has

A. Tightly connected walls with a healthy wide frog

And

B. Adequate sole thickness and depth

Yes, all there is to do basically is is to the sole (leave the heels about 1/8 inch higher than the live sole) and bevel halt the thickness of the wall to about a 45 degree angle. This is usually called a "maintenance trim" for a horse with good feet and no real problems.

This thing is, IME few domestic horses have this foot when you first start with them. I usually see lots of long toes and underrun heels coupled with thin flat soles and cruddy wall quality and thrush.

So, it depends but the very basics of a good trim is just that.
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post #24 of 32 Old 02-03-2013, 07:55 PM
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Are you wanting to trim like a farrier does or a bare foot trimmer ? The two are totaly different? I myself like barefoot and Loosie is a barefoot trimmer, she is a pro :) in my eyes:) She problably has several pic's for you to take a look. I have none as I have a new computer with very little pictures. None of hooves.
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post #25 of 32 Old 02-03-2013, 07:58 PM
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Skip the "pasture trim" (trimming the foot as if a shoe will be set) if you are keeping the horse barefoot. Only ill educated and old school farriers still do this anymore. The wall will be chipping in days and it removes live sole which will result in a foot sore horse more often than not.

Good trimming is good trimming no matter who does it and a good barefoot trim on a healthy hoof is exactly what I described whether the person wears a farrier hat or a trimmer hat :)

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post #26 of 32 Old 02-03-2013, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Trinity you rock, that was the clear answer I was looking for Btw you were so right in my last thread, that bizarre horn my trimmer was leaving on because she thought it was 'protecting something' was monster over grown bar.

My horse actually had major toe callus on both front toes, now you have me wondering if I should bring those down to the same level as the rest of the sole... we have never cleaned up his dead flaky sole, and I wasn't planning on it with my own trims either. You've given me a lot to think about.
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post #27 of 32 Old 02-03-2013, 08:05 PM
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Oh yay to the removal of the monster bar lol...I bet the horse feels alot better :) Post pictures and I would be happy to give a look see.

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post #28 of 32 Old 02-03-2013, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity3205 View Post
Dead and false sole can usually go. (There are exceptions) It needs to go so you can determine the actual sole plane and trim to it. Live waxy sole should be left alone. Leaving dead and false sole can cause bruising.
Hmm, now I agree that if you don't otherwise have a good idea of where the *live* sole is likely to be & balance in this regard, removing dead sole can be helpful. I also agree that leaving too much dead sole can potentially(rarely seen this, more usually the opposite IME) cause bruising, as with overgrown, laid over bars. I absolutely agree with not invading live sole plane, but I'd have to say that generally(there are exceptions), dead & false sole can stay unless it's obviously ready to come off & is usually best left, in order to *avoid* bruising, by leaving more 'armour' to protect the foot.

Also with regard to someone learning & not having clear ideas of boundaries, I'd say if in any doubt whatsoever, leave it.

Quote:
(leave the heels about 1/8 inch higher than the live sole)
There are many reasons why leaving the heels a tad higher may be appropriate, but as a rule, I believe the entire hoof walls - including heels - should be balanced in relation to the sole plane. So if you trim the toe to level with the sole, that's where you should take the quarters & heels to as well. If you leave 1/8" extra wall at the heels, that's about how much longer they should be at the toe also.

Of course, these are basic principles & generalisations, not 'rules' to follow absolutely.

Wow, Trinity, I think this is the most I've ever differed from your opinion in a post by far!

Quote:
This thing is, IME few domestic horses have this foot when you first start with them.
That is absolutely the crux of the issue IME too, that relatively few horses I see have truly well formed, functional feet, so you generally have to adapt & change at least some of those basic principles of trimming in order to address problems. This is a major reason why I don't think learning from books & vids is good enough for people generally - a basic trim is inadequate or inappropriate in so many situations, but then it's almost beyond the scope of books & vids to explain all the ifs buts & maybes.
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post #29 of 32 Old 02-03-2013, 10:43 PM
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It really helped me as a owner/trimmer to have my retired (due to injury) farrier come for a session to point out my strengths and weaknesses. She set me up for two years of trimming success until I found another farrier, one who doesn't mind matching her work to the picture I have in my mind.
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post #30 of 32 Old 02-04-2013, 11:10 AM
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Loosie, IME, people that are new to trimming need to learn where the real sole is. Any chalky dead sole is perfectly safe to remove and will come out easily. Also many times the hoof will shed old sole unequally and then you end up with a high side or a lump. I always advise finding a smooth sole plane due to this. Most new trimmers are too afraid and leave too much anyway. Rule one is obey the sole so IMO, you need to learn to FIND the sole first. Gene O also recommends this and I think he is spot on.

As far as the heels, heel first is important and most frogs are less than adequate. A little extra heel is a boon most of the time in soft or hard conditions. I see many new trimmers chop the heels right off to achieve this level coffin bone. That is not correct and results in improper movement.
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