Farrier Made my Horse Bleed?? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 11-26-2012, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
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Farrier Made my Horse Bleed??

So, my warmblood mare was getting re-shod last week. The farrier working on her has only shod her once before. He told me that the previous farrier had been letting her toes grow out too long and he wanted to bring them back. To some extent I agreed that her toes seemed longer than they needed to be. Anyway, as he was using the nippers on her left hind, she started bleeding.

The farrier told me that because her toes had been permitted to grow out too long for a while, blood vessels had extended farther than they otherwise ought to. (Sort of the same idea as the quick extending farther down the nails of dogs or cats who go a while without their nails being trimmed regularly?) Does this explanation make sense? He picked up the trimmings from both of her hind toes and compared them for me to show me that he hadn't taken any more off of the hoof that started bleeding than he had taken off the other one, which was fine.

I was watching the whole time, and my mare did not react at all when he nipped and she started bleeding -- not even a flinch. She didn't show any hesitation to put the foot back down and rest her full weight on it... and she walked completely sound immediately after. She has been completely sound all this week too. So, it didn't seem to cause her any pain... but I'm still sort of wondering how "normal" this is? I've never seen a horse start bleeding while being trimmed before?
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post #2 of 19 Old 11-26-2012, 10:55 PM
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This is a typical thing some ferries do. I love ferries but some do like to trim the toe way back. I have had a lot of issues with this. My gelding would get very sore when his toes were trimmed. I always asked the ferrier to take it slow, there is plenty of time to work slowly to get the correct degrees and break over. My gelding actually was more sound with longer toes...go figure. I am not an expert but I do know that the ferrier is my most important horse contact and I only hire the best.
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post #3 of 19 Old 11-26-2012, 10:56 PM
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Um... no, not normal. Her toes very well may have been too long, but it's not like you can always chop it all off back to where it should be. That's why they are called "trims." I would not have someone out who made my horse bleed.
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post #4 of 19 Old 11-26-2012, 11:02 PM
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I'd have a new farrier..
There is no reason that your farrier just haaad to bring the toe back that far in one trim..What, is he never going to see the horse again?

I was taught to never go into the White line (blood vessels that would bleed when nipped) or thin the wall out (bringing the toe back) too much so that it gets brittle. The White line will always recede back between trims as the toe is trimmed back. It's not the end of the world if she has some toe left.

Any pictures of what he did??
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post #5 of 19 Old 11-26-2012, 11:31 PM
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You know, as much practice that I have at clipping both my dogs nails....I still clip the freakin qwik on atleast one of em, and they bleed all over.....

In the case of the farrier, this can happen, it's obviously not ideal, and trimming back should be in increments. I've seen farriers work on long toes by coming every 4-5 weeks and trimming a little away each time, but closer to the blood vessels, as this makes the blood vessels recede back.....which is what you want to happen in regards to long toes....and it's the same with dogs, small trims frequently close to the qwik to make it recede so you can get them short again...

I'm pleased your horse isn't sore and perhaps next time the farrier will not get so close, but close enough to make the vascular areas recede a bit......
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post #6 of 19 Old 11-26-2012, 11:48 PM
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I wouldn't be teribly concerned at this point. There is, on occasion, the possibility of a stray blood vessel(of some sort) that will grow down in the horny wall. It will bleed even though the foot isn't to short and the horse won't become sore. IME it is a rareity, though some horses that they are found in will have this every trim and usualy only in the same affected foot. In 30 some years I've only seen a handfull. W/o seeing it at the time of the trim it is hard to say but it can happen, even to the best of farriers/trimmers. To those that would fire the farrier on the spot, "get bnt".
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For all your farrier needs, GET BNT!
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post #7 of 19 Old 11-27-2012, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Iseul View Post
Any pictures of what he did??
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I'll try to get some photos in the next day or two. Unfortunately I don't have any "before" shots, so you all won't be able to see what her feet looked like beforehand as opposed to how they are now.

I don't exactly want to fire him right off the bat. He has always been very honest and straightforward with me. He shows me the things he notices about the horses' feet and explains the mechanics of it, which is more than can be said for plenty of other farriers I've had. It may be only his second time working on this mare... but he has been trimming our other horse fairly successfully.

He was very diligent about making sure that the bleeding stopped and applied something to prevent any infection. She was the first of several horses he had to work on at the barn that day, and he made sure to check back in on her before he left.
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post #8 of 19 Old 11-27-2012, 08:21 AM
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My horse is transitioning from being shod to barefoot.
There have been a few bruises along the way and when my farrier trims the spot where they were, there was some occasion bleeding, so I don't panic when I see blood, but I do ask a gazillion questions about it.

When my horse had some other issues in late spring, due to not frequent enough trims because I was following the schedule he recommended, I decided to really talk with him instead of finding a new farrier.
We were still new to one another at that time and he didnĎt understand what I wanted for my horse, so we had an in depth talk and I explained that I wanted him to come more often and why. I also explained my concerns about how he was keeping my horseís hooves and asked how we could make things better. It was a good talk and I didn't complain to him, but rather we discussed his hooves in depth.
He is a good farrier, but he just didnít understand that we (both my horse and me) needed a higher level of care than most of the other non-shod horses/horse owners in my area.
He is also awesome with my rescue donkeys and Iím glad we had a good talk and resolved the issues.

While I donít tip farriers, as some people do, he and his family will be getting a really nice holiday basket full of yummy goodies.
If you have a good feeling about this guy, have a talk with him and ask him why he does what he does and what your concerns are. He sounds like the type of farrier that will work with you.
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post #9 of 19 Old 11-27-2012, 08:28 AM
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Ahh, so other than this mishap he's a good, trustworthy farrier, alright. In which case, I probably wouldn't fire him either. I do know the farrier I learned from would either cut his price in half or not charge at all for that horse if he bled it and he wasn't taking out an abcess, White line disease, etc.

He may have used turpentine (or the horse brand product) as a sealant, which I've only seen good with. It's good that he knew to seal it up and make sure the bleeding stopped, the "barefoot specialist" that trimmed a horse I was working with for a job, cut out a chunk of foot (into sensitive tissues and completely taking out the while line) that was infected with White line disease and didn't do anything other than to tell them to spray it once a week (not taking into account that the pony was dangerous with his feet BECAUSE OF the barefoot guy [my theory as they showed me where the trimmer stood which would've been torquing the the horse all around])..abscessed and turned out horrible, I couldn't touch his stifle and below without him threatening to kick. He actually got me, and my leg is STILL sore from it from a good 3 months or so ago, lol.
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post #10 of 19 Old 11-27-2012, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Iseul View Post
I do know the farrier I learned from would either cut his price in half or not charge at all for that horse if he bled it and he wasn't taking out an abcess, White line disease, etc.
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I believe he charged me for front shoes, but not back ones... and he didn't charge for whatever it was that he put on to protect it. We were planning to pull her hind shoes to see about transitioning her to being barefoot in back... but after she started bleeding he wanted to make sure that she had plenty of protection so he went ahead and shod her all around.
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