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For Fellow Hoof Nerds

3K views 20 replies 6 participants last post by  Smilie 
#1 ·
Some of you probably read this article when it first came out several years ago. I just read through it again, and found it more interesting this time.
https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/11-140

Here are a couple of things I found very interesting:
The presence of a high mean sole depth and excessively thick hoof wall in hard substrate feral horses compared with that in soft substrate feral horses and domestic horses indicated that the entire hoof capsule of these brumbies may lack flexibility. Although substantial sole depth and hoof wall thickness are usually
seen as desirable attributes in the hoof, the consequences of excessive biomechanical loading driving excessive tissue responses may change the ultimate function of the hoof, reducing flexibility. An excessively thick hoof capsule could be viewed as a consequence of overuse. The form and structure of feet associated with this foot type with the typical short hoof wall (exposing the peripheral sole to
direct weight bearing) and large beveled wall (removing the outside hoof wall tubules from direct weight bearing) perhaps should not be viewed as an optimal model for the foot.

An example of the questionable use of the extreme natural foot model is the application of the squared toe and the over-exaggeration of distal wall roll, often referred to as the “mustang roll”. The square (or rockered) toe is a feature thought to be a strategic hoof structure aiding early break-over. The more conservative (and more commonly used) definition of the mustang roll is a soft radius or bevel applied around the entire circumference of the hoof wall. The function is to prevent distal hoof wall cracking, chipping and wall flares. Because these features occur in the “model” feral horse foot they are often applied with the rasp during trimming. The detailed study of feral horse feet showed that the
squared toe occurred in extreme cases and was excessive in horses travelling long distances over rough, uneven and mountainous terrain, and in horses required to dig for food or water. The roll is a
consequence of constant chipping and abrasion as the hoof makes contact with rocks and abrasive footing from all directions as the horse moves across the terrain. As the foot hits a rock and a fragment of hoof wall is dislodged energy is dissipated, rather than propagated through the hoof to the underlying soft tissues and skeleton. The wearing process that creates the roll may be a protective feature of the hoof wall but the actual architectural feature of the roll itself may have no protective function in the horse’s foot. Therefore the practice of creating the squared toe and excessive roll artificially with the rasp may be of no benefit to the horse with a “normal” foot. The application of the exaggerated form of this feature to the managed domestic horse living in a paddock environment should be reconsidered. In specific situations, such as when a lamellar wedge is present, a more extreme trim may be applied to reduce the dorsal wall forces at break-over. However, in healthy, barefoot horses, a small bevel of the distal hoof wall appears to be effective in preventing hoof wall cracking and chipping and at the same time does not affect the break-over location, and allows the outer most hoof wall tubules to bear weight as they are meant to.
The study gives me a lot of food for thought regarding a few things. For one, if the thick walls of the mustang hoof are a defense mechanism and the thickened laminae are caused by chronic laminitis from excessive concussive forces, perhaps we should not be trying to "toughen up" our horses feet or getting them to add callous as is a popular idea. I was interested to read that there is no research to tell us yet how much sole depth is good or whether too much sole depth is bad (in some cases, I know it has been detrimental to hoof health). It can be a very individual thing.

Another thing I think of is that this information seems to go against our ideas that horses need to move many miles/km per day, and how instead a horse in its ideal environment may move much less, i.e. only up to 10 miles or 16 km a day. Which also has some implications for how many miles it is good to ride a horse versus what may be unhealthy, even for their hooves. It also has implications for whether we should add hard surfaces to horses' turnouts, since in these studies the horses on the softer surfaces tended to have less serious issues.

Thoughts?
 
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#3 ·
Yes, interesting. The first time I read through it I was more skeptical, thinking how do they know the thicker laminae are not healthier? But they point out in the article that the laminae did show signs of trauma to the "basement membrane" where the laminar cells originate, and other changes to the laminae we see in horses with changes from laminitis. So if I understand it right, they don't believe the remodeling was healthy like building bigger muscles, but was unhealthy like repairing a wound.
 
#4 ·
I will go read that report again Gotta - been a while since I have & computer playing funny******s ATM... or I'm just oot tired... so won't even try to go off memory atm. My thoughts on the first quote is that this is from research done through Brian Hampson & Chris Pollitt & IMO there are lots of questional things I've read & speculation & supposition there. for eg why do they suppose it's not ideal, *in that situation*. The second thought(though) is yes, I agree that people get carried away by the 'ideal' of a feral, arid environ horse's hoof. Whether or not that hof form is ideal or not for a ferl desert beast is neither here nor there if our horses have a much different environment & lifestyle.
 
#5 ·
I've always been skeptical that the desert mustang foot is the ideal foot, especially for horses who do not live in deserts. I live in sandy/swampy areas, and a desert foot is not ideal for our environment. Feral horses in the Caribbean have wider/paddle type feet for sand and swampy conditions so obviously a desert model won't work on those conditions. I am in no way an expert, I was forced into trimming my own horse's feet due to horrible "farriers" and not wanting to lame my horse up. I've been reading and watching videos and hopefully I can find a barefoot trimmer now that we are moving to an area with more horses (and owners who actually care about their horses).
 
#6 ·
Ok, here goes my long devil's advocate post. I agree the feral desert foot is not ideal for wet soft areas. Neither does Pete Ramey or Gene Ovnicek. For my money, I'm sticking with those two guys even though they do disagree on some finer points. I actually wish they would form a coalition and work together.

Here goes. May sound a little harsh but it' my current feelings at the moment. Pre-written and pasted.

Page 1, second paragraph, lines 4,5,6.

Quote: "​An interest​ ​in the “wild horse” or “natural” hoof model has emerged several times in the past few centuries and
the recent resurgence of the model has been particularly strong.​"​

At first I sort of read over this. But when out and about it sort of came to me, "hey wait a minute". Are we comparing centuries old efforts using the very crude technologies available at that time to the MRI and X-ray studies that are done now? And Dr. Bowker's specialized study of micro vessels? And a long list of highly specialized studies and equipment that were not available centuries and centuries ago?

The more I thought about it the more it bothered me. This started sounding, to me, as demeaning toward the work that has been done, which is considerable. It began sounding as if the author was scoffing at yet another round of centuries old re-emergence that would soon fade as it did in the past.

Modern dentistry will not fade into the past. Nor will most of modern medicine. If not for modern medicine, I would have been dead years ago along with many others.

The new knowledge that is now known about the horses foot will not go away either.​ A scientific investigation must not ever have biases toward the outcome conclusions.

To me, the quote above indicates the research may have had an expected outcome from the outset.​

Page 10 (20 of 46) Last sentence.

Quote: "The conformation of the feral horse may offer a guide to
best practice for overall soundness, but may not necessarily produce the best performance.​"​


Not sure I'm understanding this. Is our goal to be performance first and overall soundness second if at all?

Page 22 of 46

Quote: "The shape of the solar surface of Mustang hooves was investigated by Ovnicek 10 who suggested that​ ​the natural hoof wall was squared at the toe, promoting early break-over and was beneficial to​ ​locomotion.​"


Gene recommends breakover to be around 1/4" to 3/8​" in front of the angle projection of P3 at the sole surface. Is that considered an early breakover. I just watched a video of Ovnicek's a few days ago that was made prior to this article where he was rounding the toe and commented he didn't want a square toe. And that was on the front. But the breakover can be thought of as square since it's straight across from pillar to pillar. It'd be interesting to learn what the researchers came up with for proper breakover location.

Further down same page

Quote: "Toe length is the distance from the tip of the distal phalanx to the distal end of the hoof wall and is​ ​measured from a latero-medial radiograph. It is an important parameter and relates to the forces on the​ ​dorsal wall and dorsal lamellae just before the break-over phase of stance. The toe length was​ ​​predictably highest (33 mm) in the horses living on soft footing and was significantly different to that​ ​of horses living on hard footing (toe length 29 mm).

​29 mm in front of P3 is 29 + 25.4 = ​54.4 mm = 2 1/8". This according to both Ovnicek and Ramey is indicative of a long toe that would be accompanied by curve or flare at the front of the hoof. No mention was made of the condition of frontal flaring. Only an average of a the the population tested. IMO, the condition of the outer/frontal hoof wall should have been reported as some average angle also. A hurried reader might conclude that the sample had perfectly straight hoof walls top to bottom.

​Page 24 of 36

Quote: "​Lining the inner hoof wall are the lamellae, which function to support the weight of the horse within the hoof capsule and dampen forces transmitted from the ground towards the skeleton of the horse."


This is almost an antiquated concept. Dr. Bowker and almost anyone else of note agree that this concept has been one of the most detrimental concepts to the health of the equine foot that has ever existed.




​Page 36 of 46

Quote: "​The traditional farriery model assumes that the hoof wall is the principle weight-bearing component of the hoof capsule 60. It is responsible for achieving smooth and painless force cycling between the ground and the appendicular skeleton during loading. Leaf-like primary epidermal lamellae project from the inner aspect of the hoof wall and interdigitate with their dermal counterparts attached to the distal phalanx. This complex anatomical arrangement forms an integral part of the suspensory apparatus of the distal phalanx which serves to suspend the appendicular skeleton within the hoof capsule. "


No comment.

​ ​
 
#7 ·
Ok, here goes my long devil's advocate post. I agree the feral desert foot is not ideal for wet soft areas. Neither does Pete Ramey or Gene Ovnicek. For my money, I'm sticking with those two guys even though they do disagree on some finer points. I actually wish they would form a coalition and work together.​
That's why we're here, to discuss things.

Quote: "​An interest​ ​in the “wild horse” or “natural” hoof model has emerged several times in the past few centuries and
the recent resurgence of the model has been particularly strong.​"​
This started sounding, to me, as demeaning toward the work that has been done, which is considerable. It began sounding as if the author was scoffing at yet another round of centuries old re-emergence that would soon fade as it did in the past. ​
True, I felt a sort of "tone" in the article that seemed demeaning toward the work done by others. Without which, there probably wouldn't have been a surge of interest in hoof care which most likely funded these studies.

Quote: "The conformation of the feral horse may offer a guide to
best practice for overall soundness, but may not necessarily produce the best performance." Not sure I'm understanding this. Is our goal to be performance first and overall soundness second if at all?
Right, that does not sound like a good concept.

I just watched a video of Ovnicek's a few days ago that was made prior to this article where he was rounding the toe and commented he didn't want a square toe. And that was on the front. But the breakover can be thought of as square since it's straight across from pillar to pillar.
I feel that those who really study what the experts say won't be confused. But it is those with a marginal knowledge who often trim with an actually square toe, or misunderstand what it means to have a short breakover.

Quote: "The toe length was​ ​​predictably highest (33 mm) in the horses living on soft footing and was significantly different to that​ ​of horses living on hard footing (toe length 29 mm)."

This according to both Ovnicek and Ramey is indicative of a long toe that would be accompanied by curve or flare at the front of the hoof. No mention was made of the condition of frontal flaring....A hurried reader might conclude that the sample had perfectly straight hoof walls top to bottom.
Now I did get from my reading that this meant the hooves had frontal flaring. Perhaps I was inferring, based on what I imagined they were describing in the soft footing hooves. Which I believe they categorized as a "lesser" abnormality versus what they categorized as more severe abnormalities, meaning actual remodeling of the soft tissue within the hoof.

Quote: "​Lining the inner hoof wall are the lamellae, which function to support the weight of the horse within the hoof capsule and dampen forces transmitted from the ground towards the skeleton of the horse."[/I][/B]

This is almost an antiquated concept. Dr. Bowker and almost anyone else of note agree that this concept has been one of the most detrimental concepts to the health of the equine foot that has ever existed.
I can't agree with the part I bolded. Yes, it has been detrimental to believe that hooves must be fully peripherally loaded. But I have personally seen how going to the other extreme of saying the hoof wall is not a necessary part of weight bearing, and putting the horse onto the sole completely is also very detrimental to horses. That is where I believe this study might have importance. It points out how only choosing a certain hoof model from a certain climate and basing trimming all horses on it without understanding completely how this hoof developed, its purpose (protection for extreme circumstances such as heavy travel over rough ground), and what the foot might give up (such as flexibility) in return.

So I agree and disagree with parts. But it is still important to consider the facts that were found even if you disagree with some of the conclusions that came from those facts.
 
#9 ·
Also they admit the horses don't show any outward signs of hoof issues and also are not lame. If the horses can deal with getting laminitis from traveling too far or from having sudden changes in their diet without being lame, perhaps the model is a good one after all.
 
#12 ·

What I got, reading about the paradoxical soundness of those desert model horses, and what their hooves revealed at the microscopic level, far as laminitis , is that because that wild hoof is developed to a much greater degree then domestic horses, those hooves are able to withstand mechanical insult to a greater degree
The 'trim' is secondary , to the internal development of that foot, created by lots of movement, from the time of birth.
In other words, just adopting that mustang hoof model ,trimming domestic hooves is flawed, because the hooves of domestic horses are seldom developed at well, internally, then that of those mustangs, and thus not likley to stand up to those forces that create mechanical laminitis in those mustangs
Far as diet induced insult- wild horses that have lived on sparse vegetation, and who get into a riparian area, suffer laminitis and founder, like any other horse
As long as we confine our domestic horses, esp in their young growing years, feed them as we do, keeping them in a constant even nutritional plane, year round, don't cull horses with inherent hoof defects (yes, i know, heredity plays a minor role to environment, but still remains a factor) , those feral horses are never ridden, carrying weight during all that movement, we cannot simply extrapolate feral hooves to domestic ideals
 
#10 ·
That is along the lines of my thinking. If that's the adaptation that allows them to survive in the most extreme of conditions, perhaps it is not so bad after all.

But definitely not for extreme wet weather. I remember Ramey speculating that infection at the laminae weakening the connection to the wall of pancake feet might help them break off since there was nothing to wear them off.

Apparently over several million years of survival horses feet have acquired adaptations to go in many different directions in many different extremes.

I actually woke up this morning with the first thoughts wondering how the researchers concluded the front of the brumbies hooves were worn from digging. And why the Nevada studies never mentioned that. And how much digging is done compared to traveling. If the early breakover recommended by Ovnicek based on his observations is to be challenged by asserting the horses do it by digging, I'd like to see some methodology on how that belief was arrived at.

And the early breakover belief did not stop at the observations in Nevada. Many horses, quite possibly in the thousands, have grown out dished flares in the front only when early breakover was added to the trim.

The body of knowledge amassed by hundreds and hundreds of professional trimmers carries more weight with me than a simple assertion that it is caused by digging without any back up what ever.

I realize the article carries the name of the government on it, has lots of stuff in the front, and more in the back, but upon closer inspection I have more questions than answers.

For my money, I'm sticking with Ovnicek and Ramey for now.
 
#13 ·
I agree that while a trim based on the Nevada wild horses may be best for the domestic horse in that environment with a heavy work load, it probably would not be best for a soft wet environment.

But....., the splayed foot with separated hoof walls may NOT be the best model for domesticated horses a wet environment. Or any environment. Probably better to be skewed away from the wild horse in a wet environment and over towards the dry foot. (towards)

And I think for certain, the dry wild hoof would be better for all seasons than the wet wild hoof for all seasons. But a place in between is probably even better as I think most hoof care providers suggest.

Still, IMO, the dry hoof overall provides a better model than the wet hoof.

And while I'm here, I'll mention that I've been rewatching Ovnicek's DVD's and in one he shows a hoof self maintained on only 10 acres of dry hard rocky Western Slope in Colorado. It had a healthy wear back to ELPO's guidelines for breakover and it apparently was not from digging for water.
 
#14 ·
I agree that while a trim based on the Nevada wild horses may be best for the domestic horse in that environment with a heavy work load, it probably would not be best for a soft wet environment.

But....., the splayed foot with separated hoof walls may NOT be the best model for domesticated horses a wet environment. Or any environment. Probably better to be skewed away from the wild horse in a wet environment and over towards the dry foot. (towards)
The horses around here live on soft footing and in a wet environment most of the year. I agree that the horses do best with a mustang type trim with shorter walls that are not left to flare and chip and crack.
 
#15 ·
I certainly agree that flared hooves that are long are not models to strive for.
However, there is a happy medium., and the extreme short walls and exaggerated bevels of the desert wild models are not something to model all domestic horse's hooves after necessarily.
As in all things, these aspects have to be taken in context. Feral horses have way better developed feet then our domestic horses, plus there still is the natural selection at work, and you can't just blindly ignore that fact, and try to make every domestic horse, regardless of the way he was brought up, also including genetics that do pre dispose him to hoof un soundness, which nature culls in the wild, Humans often select horse for many other attributes then conformation for longevity of soundness, including feet
Many domestic horses are kept 'sound' by special shoing and other interventions, thus do pass on genetics that produce hooves that would most likley make them 'dinner' in the wild.
My horses live in full time turn out, for the most part, but even so, they are not travelling miles of abrasive desert sand, to meet daily food requirements and water needs.
Thus, I have no problem shoing short term, if the work the horse is asked to do, requires some hoof protection. It is a fact, that club footed horses don't have that sole depth in front of the apex of the frog
Charlie has a club foot, and is perfectly barefoot sound, in arenas,down the road, across the fields, and walks without a problem, over the crushed gravel in her corral
However, I am aware that her coffin bone should be protected, as re modelling is common in club footed horses, so I have come to terms , far as my decision to have her shod for three or 4 months
Yes, I can, and do use hoof boots, on her , trail riding on rocky ground, but I can't really show in hoof boots,and hoof boots are just not as good, trail riding, JMO, nor do they really relieve sole pressure in front of that apex of the frog, without special pads-so shoing, to prevent excess wearing of her toe, when I ride her lots, makes sense
There are no wild horse models, far as club feet, travelling over all that ground, and maybe any club footed horse in the wild becomes susceptible to lameness or becomes dinner, and is culled
Shed is perfectly fine, as long as I maintain that foot , being barefoot sound, and I don't shoe her because she is lame. At the same time, unlike those feral horses, I ask her to be athletic under saddle, cARRYING WEIGHT
 
#16 ·
I certainly agree that flared hooves that are long are not models to strive for.
However, there is a happy medium., and the extreme short walls and exaggerated bevels of the desert wild models are not something to model all domestic horse's hooves after necessarily.
As in all things, these aspects have to be taken in context. Feral horses have way better developed feet then our domestic horses, plus there still is the natural selection at work, and you can't just blindly ignore that fact, and try to make every domestic horse, regardless of the way he was brought up, also including genetics that do pre dispose him to hoof un soundness, which nature culls in the wild, Humans often select horse for many other attributes then conformation for longevity of soundness, including feet
Many domestic horses are kept 'sound' by special shoing and other interventions, thus do pass on genetics that produce hooves that would most likley make them 'dinner' in the wild.
My horses live in full time turn out, for the most part, but even so, they are not travelling miles of abrasive desert sand, to meet daily food requirements and water needs.
Thus, I have no problem shoing short term, if the work the horse is asked to do, requires some hoof protection.
I agree with this.

It is a fact, that club footed horses don't have that sole depth in front of the apex of the frog
Charlie has a club foot, and is perfectly barefoot sound, in arenas,down the road, across the fields, and walks without a problem, over the crushed gravel in her corral
However, I am aware that her coffin bone should be protected, as re modelling is common in club footed horses, so I have come to terms , far as my decision to have her shod for three or 4 months
I want to point out that this can be the case, but is often not the case in club hooves.
These x-rays are from a farrier site discussing club hooves, and you will notice when a club is managed properly there can be more than adequate sole depth. As with the bottom photo, the issue is not whether there is remodeling, but whether the coffin bone tip points down and there is not enough sole depth.


I've seen many similar xrays of club hooves after treatment where the coffin bone tip is not pointing downward and the hoof has adequate depth. For a sound horse, I would not assume that using the horse barefoot athletically with a club hoof will cause any problems. I have a mare with a club hoof that has had no issues being used for long distance riding barefoot. I've known a few other horses that were sound barefoot when ridden and used very athletically with club hooves.
 
#17 ·
can you give me that link, as I have been reading farrier sites, and hence was led to believe a club foot lacks sole depth, and must be protected
Charlie is sound, and I have shown her barefoot, trimming her according to live sole, lowering heels as that allows, and addressing any flare at the front, from the top.
None the less, her club foot is smaller then her other foot< and I have not been able to change that
I would reaLLY be interested in more info, and pictures, far as managing a club foot in an adult horse
 
#18 ·
NANRIC - Recognizing Various Grades of the Club Foot Syndrome
This site has the xrays, but I disagree somewhat with some of the information.

First, I agree that deep digital flexor tendon tension/shortening is the cause. But there are different reasons for it. For example, my mare has a deep scar on the heel of her club. Any reason for a horse to not weight the heel of a hoof for a period of time can lead to excess heel growth. Because the hoof capsule is rigid, if a hoof has a tall heel, the muscles of that leg will shorten/tighten. Even if you remove the cause of the heel pain and shorten the heel of the hoof, if you do it quickly the muscles and/or tendons will become damaged and the problem will recur. But if you gradually shorten the heel over time, the muscles will slowly stretch out creating a functionally longer muscle/tendon unit so there is no longer tension on the deep digital flexor tendon. Especially as the club has developed, the contracted heel means lots of retained bar and sole in the heel area, and horses get much more comfortable when those are removed.

But as you've seen with your hoof and I've seen with mine, if a hoof was allowed to stay clubby for a long period of time, the coffin bone remodels. Once there is coffin bone remodeling, the hoof will always make a dish on the front if allowed to grow out. Due to the contracted heels the hoof once had, the coffin bone also becomes narrow/oval shaped so the hoof remains smaller and more oval than the other front.

Those become permanent parts of the hoof growth, but if you grow a tight capsule with good trimming and keep the heels down, the coffin bone will sit at a better angle in the hoof and grow good sole depth. This means the horse can be sound for all types of work.
My mare had difficulty picking up her lead on the club hoof and turning tight circles in that direction until the heel was less tall.

The hairline angle shows how the heel is less tall.

When I started the toe was very steep, but not quite square like this one a friend of mine worked on. This one had lots of improvement/better comfort for the horse:
 
#19 ·
Thanks, Trottin.
Charlie,s club foot , is a result of me not being on top of it, when she was a foal. It was a time I was going through chemo, so that is the only excuse I can give, that when she was about 8 months old, very growthy, I noticed that both front feet were clubby.
The left corrected with trimming, but the right, not completely. She has always been sound, picks up both leads, and you would not know that she has a club foot, watching her move
Since Smilie has had issues with her IR, and due to what I posted about last year, has taken ages to bring back to riding soundness, I am a bit paranoid, as Charlie, a very reactive horse, is now becoming the horse I always knew she could be, and it seems once I get really attached to a horse, something happens-like my gelding that got Cushings!
Anyway, will do some reading later, and perhaps post a few pics of Charlie's club foot.
Right now, I must go to the auto wreakers, and get what is left in my car, that is important, as it was declared a write off, by our insurance company, after my encounter with a deer, late at night!
Also arranging to put my 30 year old reining mare down, and have her buried. Thought she might have one more summer, but it is time!
 
#21 ·
Finally got back to this thread
Yes, I know that a club foot that develops in an adult horse, can be returned to normal, soon as that horse has that pain issue resolved, so he weights that foot normally, as we had a horse like that.
The 'clubby' foot in that horse resolved, soon as the reason the horse did not use that foot correctly, was no longer an issue
However, a true club foot, as a narrow window, when that horse is still a foal, to be resolved, by interventions such as toe extensions, tetracycline administration, ect
I am well versed in the different grades.
All I have read, far as true club feet in an adult horse, is that they can be managed, but not corrected. Improved, yes, but not truly made 'normal' This works for many horses,esp those that are grade 1 or 2


To best manage a club foot, it helps to first understand the anatomical structures contributing to the problem. Originating from three muscle bellies on the forearm, the deep digital flexor tendon (DDFT) runs down the back of the limb to insert on the back of the coffin bone. The strong inferior check ligament (IFCL) originates in the carpus (front knee) region and attaches to the DDFT at the middle back of the cannon bone. Any excessive pull (shortening of the musculotendinous unit) on the deep digital flexor muscle and tendon unit causes a complementary pull or flexion of the coffin joint.


Managing the Club Foot | TheHorse.com
 
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