Fixing founder, would you lower these heels further?
   

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Fixing founder, would you lower these heels further?

This is a discussion on Fixing founder, would you lower these heels further? within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category

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        03-01-2014, 09:16 PM
      #1
    Foal
    Fixing founder, would you lower these heels further?

    Hello again hoof people!

    Here we have a horse bought by my friend earlier this week - 17yo quarter horse that has foundered. No radiographs sorry. SO we've begun fixing it, toes were already brought back, so I've lowered the heel a smidge, dug quite a bit of bar out today which really seemed to help her (it was covering half the sole!) but I thought I'd get a second opinion on heel height. Thoughts on taking it even lower? Leave it? Or should I maybe be rasping a slightly differently angled platform for the heel so that her whole leg is positioned slightly differently?

    My instincts say, leave it alone since she's having a hard time lifting her feet for more than 10 seconds at a time, and come back and try in maybe a couple weeks, but you guys always have a different (valuable!) perspective on things. I went out and picked up no-thrush, vetrap, diapers and duct tape to make a mega-poultice for her feet but I just couldn't even lift her feet enough to put anything on besides the no thrush. She has sickly pathetic frogs. ANYWAY. Heels, what do you think. I could not get a sole shot because she just could barely stand on 3 legs, sorry guys.

    (bear with me while I try to get pics to work)

    loosie likes this.
         
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        03-01-2014, 09:19 PM
      #2
    Trained
    If you use the IMG file, it will show the pictures. Those are some sad feet.



         
        03-01-2014, 09:23 PM
      #3
    Foal
    Thanks! I had to fiddle with it, been so long since I've posted a picture
    Celeste likes this.
         
        03-01-2014, 09:47 PM
      #4
    Yearling
    These pictures don't tell us enough. They look fine for now but we can't see any real detail.

    Good Hoof Photos - How to take Good Hoof Photos
         
        03-01-2014, 09:49 PM
      #5
    Green Broke
    I would bring the heels back just a smidge more. Slowly, as the toe is brought back as well. It's a balancing act with her PA. Short toe, high heel will give her a high PA. Not something she needs if she's foundered. Low heel long toe well give her a negative PA, also not good. But bringing her heel back to its correct position while slowly lowering it(as to not stretch and stress her tendons) would be what I would do.

    I would advise not trimming on concrete if at all possible. Trimming on dirt or sand will be a lot more forgiving on her hurting feet and she should be able to stand for you longer.

    Have radiographs been taken at all? I would definitely get some to find if there is any rotation or sinking going on,and to what severity. That will also help a lot with trimming.

    Her feet are pretty similar to a mini I was trimming, except his were way more severe. If you look up Rebels hoof progress journal, you'll be able to see how much trimming and what I did with his feet until I could no longer trim him. I haven't seen him since so I don't know how his feet look now, but he was well on his way to his version of normal.
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    loosie, KeroKero and Roux like this.
         
        03-01-2014, 09:52 PM
      #6
    Foal
    Her frogs aren't touching the ground, but I worry that because they are so shriveled that if I put the heels that low it will be too painful - would you go that route and take'em down to stimulate the frogs, or would you keep treating with the no thrush and keep them off the ground for now?
         
        03-01-2014, 09:56 PM
      #7
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kayella    
    I would bring the heels back just a smidge more. Slowly, as the toe is brought back as well. It's a balancing act with her PA. Short toe, high heel will give her a high PA. Not something she needs if she's foundered. Low heel long toe well give her a negative PA, also not good. But bringing her heel back to its correct position while slowly lowering it(as to not stretch and stress her tendons) would be what I would do.

    I would advise not trimming on concrete if at all possible. Trimming on dirt or sand will be a lot more forgiving on her hurting feet and she should be able to stand for you longer.

    Have radiographs been taken at all? I would definitely get some to find if there is any rotation or sinking going on,and to what severity. That will also help a lot with trimming.

    Her feet are pretty similar to a mini I was trimming, except his were way more severe. If you look up Rebels hoof progress journal, you'll be able to see how much trimming and what I did with his feet until I could no longer trim him. I haven't seen him since so I don't know how his feet look now, but he was well on his way to his version of normal.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    I trimmed her in the snow, I just wanted to get some cleanish pictures. She wouldn't lift her feet at all on the concrete so there wasn't much option for that.

    No radiographs, but when looking at her sole, it's a bad scene. Near sole penetration but not quite there. Caught just in time, maybe.
         
        03-01-2014, 10:04 PM
      #8
    Green Broke
    If she's that close to sole penetration, you're definitely walking a fine line. That is a lot of rotation and can go wrong with a swipe of the rasp. I'm not the best person to take advice from, as I have very little experience. Loosie, Trinity, or Patty would be a lot more help than me, and would give advice that I would feel a lot more comfortable following if I were in your position.

    But about the frogs. I would get them treated for thrush most definitely. But in order for a frog to heal and grow, I it also needs proper blood flow and stimulation. Which it cannot get if it doesn't make contact with the ground. If she's in the snow, that's a softer footing that solo conform to her feet and stimulate her frogs some at this point.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    loosie and KigerQueen like this.
         
        03-02-2014, 04:31 AM
      #9
    Weanling
    Are you a certified farrier?
         
        03-02-2014, 04:34 AM
      #10
    Trained
    Hi,

    Need better pics to give you much, and I'd strongly advise your friend getting rads. *Make sure the vet marks the hooves for the xrays - dorsal wall, point of frog & hairline.

    Yes, by the sound & look of it, you may not be able to do much immediately, but you do need to get those heels significantly lower, just not in one fell swoop. I would be, as you suggested, taking the heels back on an angle *to the current ground plane* so that the bearing surface is (more)correct for the bony column, then I'd be lowering them as much as possible, but without drastic sudden changes - eg. Generally no more than *up to* about 1/2" a time, but you could trim weekly for a few goes, to get the bony column quickly aligned. Weak heels will also have a bearing on how low heels may be able to come down, but sounds like the horse needs padding/soft footing anyway.

    I imagine, esp if the horse has nearly penetrated, it will indeed be painful to stand on concrete or such, let alone putting extra weight on one while you hold the other. I'd be keeping him on soft, yielding footing, &/or protecting wherever necessary. For the sake of pics, you can stay in the soft stuff, but get him to put a hoof on a piece of ply or such, to take on the ground pics. If he must be taken onto hard footing, or he's sore even on yielding, soft ground, ensure he's got thick enough foam rubber/styrene under his feet(poss with a crescent cut out for now to relieve tip of P3 if penetrating).
    KeroKero and Yogiwick like this.
         

    Tags
    founder, frogs, lame, overgrown, thrush

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