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founder or wall seperation or seedy toe

This is a discussion on founder or wall seperation or seedy toe within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category

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        03-10-2014, 02:04 PM
      #11
    Yearling
    The feet are in need of a trim for sure - they look typical of a pony living in hot conditions - I see this often here, not because that they have bad or foundered feet but because the feet become very hard to trim, sometimes we have 2-3 months here without rain . The foot growth slows down so it is generally not a problem.
    The apparent separation between the sole and hoof wall is where the white line had worn away - the white line is the softest part of the hoof. The hoof wall becomes exposed and brittle and the sole will become polished as it gets very hard

    I have seen feet like this before - the foot shows a good shape , the toe hasn't become pointed and the heels haven't collapsed so there aren't any signs of deformity or founder at the moment - just a bit long is all
         
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        03-10-2014, 03:43 PM
      #12
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by princessfluffybritches    
    Looks like there is a part of sole in the toe area that may be making ground contact and the pressure hurts. See how smooth it is compared to the rest of the sole? See if you or someone can trim that down so she's not walking on it.
    I would be hesitant to trim that built up sole around the toe. Best case scenario, it is a callus that is protecting the tip of P3. Worst case scenario, it could be the result of coffin bone rotation. You said this pony has been sore for awhile?

    What do her footfalls look like? Heel first? Flat? Toe first?

    I agree that there does appear to be some wall separation at the toe - this could be due to white line disease, mechanical forces, etc.

    Get a vet and experienced farrier involved!
    loosie, elbandita and amigoboy like this.
         
        03-10-2014, 03:55 PM
      #13
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nutty Saddler    
    The feet are in need of a trim for sure - they look typical of a pony living in hot conditions - I see this often here, not because that they have bad or foundered feet but because the feet become very hard to trim, sometimes we have 2-3 months here without rain . The foot growth slows down so it is generally not a problem.
    The apparent separation between the sole and hoof wall is where the white line had worn away - the white line is the softest part of the hoof. The hoof wall becomes exposed and brittle and the sole will become polished as it gets very hard

    I have seen feet like this before - the foot shows a good shape , the toe hasn't become pointed and the heels haven't collapsed so there aren't any signs of deformity or founder at the moment - just a bit long is all

    Is that a bad thing; that the sole become polished?
         
        03-10-2014, 04:30 PM
      #14
    Yearling
    Not at all , it is just a result of dry conditions

    If you look at the height of the heels and that they are forward of the bulb of the heel you can tell that the feet need a trim - the white line, being of soft material, often cannot be seen at this point between the sole and hoof wall - which wear slowly as there is little moisture in them. The hoof wall will hold up quite well as it is a miniature pony so it will not break apart as a horses would under these conditions -- normal rules don't always apply when dealing with minis .

    I have seen polished soles very often in dry conditions - the ground dries out and becomes dusty , when you add this to the lack of moisture and an overgrown foot what you may see is exactly the first picture.
         
        03-10-2014, 07:30 PM
      #15
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rialto    
    I would be hesitant to trim that built up sole around the toe. Best case scenario, it is a callus that is protecting the tip of P3. Worst case scenario, it could be the result of coffin bone rotation. You said this pony has been sore for awhile?

    What do her footfalls look like? Heel first? Flat? Toe first?

    I agree that there does appear to be some wall separation at the toe - this could be due to white line disease, mechanical forces, etc.

    Get a vet and experienced farrier involved!

    I think I was focused on what could be the cause of the lameness. I would not tell anyone to remove it, I'm not qualified. If that area protruded , it could cause lameness.
         
        03-10-2014, 07:35 PM
      #16
    Foal
    Indefinitely white line.
    What is your horses primary diet consist of?
    loosie likes this.
         
        03-12-2014, 04:28 AM
      #17
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by princessfluffybritches    
    Looks like there is a part of sole in the toe area that may be making ground contact and the pressure hurts. See how smooth it is compared to the rest of the sole? See if you or someone can trim that down so she's not walking on it.
    NOOO!!! ABSOLUTELY DO NOT DO THIS!!! At very least without a LOT more to go on and a very knowledgeable farrier/trimmer. It is unclear from just this one pic(need a range OP, see link in my signature for tips), but it could well be the reason the sole is on the ground is because P3 is hiding not very much higher. You absolutely do not want to remove any of the little protection that's there. You would only ever trim sole, esp at the toe, if it is obviously in great excess.

    Granted, could be 'false sole', could be too much - while most horses rarely need sole trimmed, mini's can. But on face value, I'm guessing that's not the case here. She has high heels, the walls have given way - saddler, they don't 'wear away' at the laminae, they become weak due to mechanical force, frequently combined with dietary & infection issues.

    If all 4 feet are like this & lame, then while it could be solely mechaincal, it sounds like laminitis & should be treated as such. Provide soft footing &/or foam pads where necessary for her to be comfortable, take her off all rich food & feed just hay in a slow feeder, and get onto a good vet & farrier *experienced in successful founder rehab*.

    See ecirhorse.com & barehoofcare.com Also is that Leeton near Griffith? If you would like me to see who's who in that area, I could PM you if I find someone good?
    Wallaby, Kayella and elbandita like this.
         
        03-12-2014, 07:40 AM
      #18
    Weanling
    Good advise from rialto, vet/farrier, looks like a rotation, your going to need x-rays to determen how much.
    Bummer
         
        03-12-2014, 10:12 AM
      #19
    Yearling
    Loosie - I wasn't talking about the laminae wearing away but the hoof wall & sole wearing slowly due to being very hard.

    I see feet like this often here where the laminae cannot be seen

    IMG_0468.jpg

    If the bars were to be removed then the sole between the point of the frog and hoof wall would look like the horse has a rotation. I can 100% guarantee that this horse does not as she is walking around my field, you can also see that the laminae cannot be seen at this stage
    ( p.s this is what the feet looked like when I bought her )
         
        03-12-2014, 08:19 PM
      #20
    Foal
    I'm quite positive I see white line disease there. It's primarily caused by hoof wall separation. Once that has taken place bacteria gets in the hoof spreading throughout decaying the hoof wall. Initially causing the hoof wall to break off much like that.

    It's a fungi. Treat it as so.

    Moreover I don't even see the bars they're so long overlain. My focus wouldn't be on them at this point but rather getting rid of the fungi. And trying to balance the hoof.
         

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